As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Soapsuds]

+1

[DRW50]

The episode I've wanted to see for a while, finally uploaded. The one where Josh beats up Tonio. I'd only ever seen flashbacks. It was a little better in the flashbacks but still fun. I wonder if Bill Finchtner asked Peter Boynton's permission to spit on him.

Lisa seems to be dressed as some sort of Golden Girls harlequin.

Geez Shannon really was a moron.

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[Khan]

Screw the ratings and all the other excuses, too. ATWT died, because Les Moonves wanted his wife to have another show on his network. Pure, and simple.

[Soapsuds]

+1

[DRW50]

I've been watching some of the late 1988/early 1989 story where Lisa is being gaslighted with Earl's voice and gifts and so on. What did you think of this story?

Eileen Fulton is doing a good job, but what I don't get is why they made a big deal out of whether or not Grant is the one who is driving her mad and trying to get her money. Would anyone really believe Grant would do that to Lisa? Either this would be a very clumsy red herring, or it would be a total hatchet job on a longstanding character.

[Mitch]

It was okay..Grant was gone long enough, and they made a good enough back story, (he lost his money, was involved with rich women) that it was believable. Also, the people who were suspicious of Grant were the ones who didn't know him, Shannon, Duncan, maybe Margo, etc.

I just hated Earl as a charater and Fulton when she acted like a 30 year old romantic heroine. I wish they had evolved Lisa as more of a Lucindaish smart cookie, or just as a AuntyMame type of character (which to give them credit, the last year of the show they did give Lisa some really good lines when she actually was on, "Hmm, all this time the two of you were living in sin!!!")

[DRW50]

Apparently Goutman told Soaps in Depth that the finale was cut by 12 minutes and there were good scenes with Lisa cut, including her scenes with Bob and Kim, and he wanted to make them available online, but wasn't allowed.

I find this hard to believe, because he didn't do a damn thing with Lisa for ten years, but beyond that, there were deleted scenes released, about seven minutes of them, with Lily, Craig, Parker, Faith, Rosanna, etc. So is he saying that they weren't allowed to release anything with older characters? Who knows.

Thanks for answering the question about the Grant story. I do think Jim Douglas played up the menacing aspect well, it's just kind of odd seeing him that way when I'd read he was a good guy.

What did you think of the story about Casey's illness? It was so gradually done, and I've always wondered if they started it knowing Bill Shanks would leave, and he was to die all along. I know they extended by six months when HBS left.

The scenes where he has to use crutches to get to the delivery room to be with Lyla, and you have his family outside, are a little hokey, but beautiful. When his mother says, "Surgery is his whole life," and then his grandmother says, "What's in there is his whole life."

I tried to watch a little of the scenes where Margo told Katie about Casey's death but Terri Conn was doing the cheerleader bit and I couldn't.

Edited March 30, 2011 by CarlD2

[Mitch]

I am not really one for the realistic storylines..as bad as this sounds, I like the soapy, returning from the dead, bad twin stuff, when done well and written "straight," and with some intelligence. The "movie of the week," relevancy stuff that Nixon and Marland did was not my cup of tea. Never liked Casey and Lyla bored me to tears so......

[DRW50]

Did you like the mystery stuff then? Watching as much of his ATWT run as I can, sometimes the mysteries can get dense and involve so many offscreen or recurring characters, although the drama is usually worth it. Like everything with Lilith - a psychiatrist we never saw, who was killed, her brother, Duncan's assistant/James' thrall Teresa, Duncan's assistant/red shirt Tobias, etc. It's tough sometimes to know a story when there are gaps. The story about Duke, for instance, seemed to start with Margo and Tom getting weird phone calls and a woman with a hacking cough running into Pam at a library.

[Mitch]

I loved most of the mystery stuff, well, didn't like "Who killed Carolyn Crawford," but it involved too many people I didn't like it went on and on. I loved that Marland's stuff was so "dense," and that he didn't take the audience for being "dense." I loved that he and his team could spin this story and involve so many people, some of whom were never seen on screen, who you could imagine in your head. It was almost like radio soaps as you were allowed to use your own imagination to know who these people were and looked like. It also made it seem like there was a whole other "world," out there besides Oakdale. Compare that to the P & G soaps before they died, both GL and ATWT were like deserted ghost towns and the characters had no connection to each other (if they werent in the storyline) much less the rest of the world! I loved that Marland could have an international story going and we rarely, if ever left the same sets, (i.e Kim and Margo talking about the Falcon in the Hughes kitchen.) Made much better sense then Wheeler acting like Goofy Brad Cole and Jonathon were in Afghanstan or wherever and they were in a Peapack park. But then Marland was good about always talking about offcamera family, friends and nemesis like real people would, and not having to explain who they are.

[DRW50]

That's all true - I wondered how it was watching in real time, compared to watching a lot of episodes on Youtube. I'm glad to hear it still flowed.

I might have already asked this, but do you remember the story from spring 1985 - most of it isn't available on Youtube - I think it started with Kim or Nancy finding a body. This was tied to Shannon's entrance. I read a few of the summaries from SOD at this time and one of them mentions Kim and Margo being held hostage in Kim's living room and subduing their captors? I'd love to see that.

[Mitch]

Shannon was already on canvas, I think this was transition stuff from the old writers to Marland. Kim finds a body in the woods behind the Hughes house. I don't know how it all came to pass but I think Margo staged something so the thieves would show themselves, which they did holding both of them hostage in the Hughes living room. Margo outsmarts them. I think they tied that to the Falcon thing, so it most likely was a Marland transition.

[DRW50]

There are two episodes up not long after Duke arrives in Oakdale. Mitch I think mentioned before that he didn't cowtow to Lily, and that's definitely true. It's a bit abrasive but then I think Lily was so coddled, it was probably a good balance. I guess the show was slowly phasing Lily out since they knew Martha was leaving but I kind of like how Lily seems more mature at this time. I wonder if she might have stayed this way if Martha hadn't left. When Martha came back it didn't seem to take long at all for her to return to being a whiny victim type.

The best part of these episodes are Andy's anger over the way John told him about Duke (and Duke existing at all), then Kim blowing her top at John because of the whole thing. Kathryn Hays and Larry Bryggman are just fantastic acting partners - you can see why they helped keep ATWT #1 even as so much else was working against the show. The best part is when Kim, in spite of her anger, tries to be cordial to Duke, which is something you don't get on soaps now.

This also has Glenn Harrington's brother, who has the awful feathered hair of the era. I do not remember reading about him or anything. Who played him? What did he do? Was he just a spoiler until Duncan/Shannon got back together? I kind of wonder how many viewers were sort of just "eh" by the time they DID get back together, as they'd been separated for so long.

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[Soapsuds]

I didnt know youtube had full episodes of ATWT up..

Here is one from 1987 with Lyndsay Frost as Betsy.

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[Soapsuds]

So many good episodes of ATWT on youtube.

There is one of Andrew Kavovit from 1986. It looks like his first appearance. This one has Hank Elliot in it.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src=http://www.youtube.com/embed/sg37XnIbC-k frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>