As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[soapfan770]

Did the character of Lily only work because of Martha Byrne's ability to sell her? I know Heather Rattray was playing Lily with my first memories as a kid of watching ATWT circa 1991 or so but I really liked Damian and Lily more than I did Holden and quickly liked Byrne a whole lot better. I always hoped that Lily would become more than just the rich girl/damsel in distress role because Byrne always brought a lot of warmth and could be a firecracker at times, see her fight with Connor in the 1995 New Years Eve vids on Youtube.

Holden and Lily were rootable to me in the late 90s during the early Molly stuff and the Faith/Hope baby switch. This past decade though I was bored to tears by Holden and Lily especially during the Keith stuff and then Lily's pill addictions. I wanted Dusty and Lily to hookup in 2004 but it never happened.

One more thing, the supposed return of Julia in 2004/05 was utterly preposterous(never made sense to me) and the actress did a horrific job. Though in Jack's amnesia (wasn't Park leaving the show?) and Holden's random affair and it was a disaster. Worse is when they Carmen Duncan come in to sub for Fulton as Lisa simply to tell Julia of how bad Carly was and list all of her past crimes. It made Lisa look bad.

Edited December 29, 2010 by soapfan770

[P.J.]

The Julia Larrabee saga, while "horrific", wasn't a Julia Lindsay (Jack's first nut-job wife) return. Julia Larabee was "simply" a nurse with the same first name as his psycho bitch ex-wife so in a confused moment, he would "connect" with the name, and later so he could find out about the psycho and think he might not want to return to Oakdale.

It was just really poorly written...I remember kvetching at the time that somehow Jack had managed to cross the Mississippi river from Illnois into Missouri, where he was hospitalized. And honestly, if TIIC hadn't hired Sarah "three time emmy award winner" Brown, the story would have been hastily wrapped up in six weeks. HS and CG practically wet themselves hoping SFB would grace ATWT with her magnificence forever. So much so, when CG hired Julie Pinson years later, he nearly handed the show over to her to keep her in what amounted to the same role (only sluttier).

Park was never leaving the show. Sarah Brown sucked in the role, mostly because she came off as an unsympathetic, using bitch. It's the one and only time Carly was ever given the upper moral hand, and most of the town still managed to take the other woman's side, or at least declined to help Carly try and get Jack help. It made me madder than spit to see Lisa basically tell JuliaII that it was more important that she get fucked every night than an infant (Sage) have her father. Even Holden refused to intercede with Jack when it came to trying to get him medical attention (to see what might have been causing his amnesia.) And then that rat bastard helped Julia break in to Carly's home and find out where Carly had lured him to (Montana), telling him his mother was sick. That's ONE reason I never EVER bought the Holden/Carly affair. They never liked each other.

I forget exactly what EF's medical emergency was, but I remember finding out later it was serious.

[soapfan770]

Thanks the stories Doc Reese and return of Pilar, and that boxing kid and his really annoying sister really turned me off from ATWT that fall so I was only watching on an occasional basis and didn't follow any synopses. I had just assumed this Julia was indeed Julia, she was certainly crazy too.

I hated the Holden/Carly affair because besides the lack of chemistry Carly and Lily had been good friends especially when Carly helped Lily cover for Lily after Julia's murder.

Another 00s musing I have is I wonder how Luke would have turned out if Kim Zimmer's son Jake Weary had stayed in the role. He was pretty good I thought and was an actual teen playing a teen. It seemed for a long time they were going to give Luke an alcoholism story before any gay story.

[DRW50]

Didn't they initially imply this was the same Julia?

I think Lily worked because she was a believable angst-ridden teen. I think that a lot of viewers could sympathize with her because she wasn't the prettiest, she made mistakes, she could be a brat. And while there was a lot of Lily propping, you never had a story like Meg goes psycho and shoots Dusty in the head and frames Lily. The people who didn't like Lily - the few who dared to have that opinion - were still given stories and dimension.

Now this is all based on my Youtube viewing. My own experience was in watching starting around late 89/early to mid 90, by which time Heather Rattray was in the role. I liked Heather and I believed her Lily, a cold woman trying to find vulnerability again. I remember being moved by her work when Lily had a miscarriage.

I had little time for Byrne's Lily when she returned in 1993. Holden/Lily bored me to tears. So did her endless singing. So did her victim routine. I did grow to like her with Damian and I thought the Orlena saga of gaslighting and terror was entertaining. And I did think Holden and Lily were a natural fit when Jon returned in late 96.

My viewing after that was sporadic but I generally preferred Martha as Rose. To me Rose was a more interesting character.

[Mitch]

Marland never let anyone say anything bad about Lily, unless they were bad or "misguided," themselves. In the good old college TV room when ATWT was on, the dorky joke when someoene walked in was to say, "But how does Lily feel about this??" or in a super serious tone "How is Lily today???"

The only reason I thought HR worked is that she was an ice cold bitch, and finally people could say, "Gee, Lily sure is a bitch!" The miscast just showed that Marland/ATWT was still a "soap," no matter how elevated he wanted it to be, as how the f*ck could Lily grow a couple feet and have a changed voice just by having PS, and then return to normal and no one says a damn thing! The problem with Rattay is that while she was a bitch, she wasnt a fun bitch like Lucinda, or Lilth (who really was just a fun psycho..) she didnt act like she was enjoying herself (once again, a problem with Marland's ATWT, NO one ever seemed to really let go and enjoy themselves) and her coldness didn't work for me as his ATWT was already too damn cold...she just kinda got lost in the ice with everyone else. I guess that is why, as much as I loved ATWT I always "liked," GL more, as it was more warm, vibrant and just fun at that time then ATWT and the tightly wound and reserved residents of Oakdale were.

[Soapsuds]

Robert Tyler.....yummmmm

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[Soapsuds]

Lilith and Hank(ATWT first gay character...sorry Luke...lol)

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[Bright Eyes]

Do we know indefinitely if Hank was the first gay character in daytime?

Edited December 29, 2010 by Amello

[Soapsuds]

I meant ATWT as the first..dont know about daytime.

[Mitch]

[Bright Eyes]

I wasn't grilling you, I was genuinely curious. I know about Joanne (Y&R) and Sharon Duval (DooL), but those two were confused/conflicted.

[Soapsuds]

LOL...call me Isabella.....Lilith was a hoot!! Sara Bosford plays here so well. That's Brian Starcher playing Hank. He looked totally gay. Brian didnt do anything after his ATWT run. It would have been nice had he returned to help Luke out when he came out of the closet. Since he was good friends with Iva, his grandmother.

I hated the Duncan castle....lol

[Soapsuds]

Hank appeared in 1988...dont know if he was the first. Maybe one of our historians(posters) here on SON might know. I wish I knew. I was 18 when Hank frist appeared....I think he was the first gay character I had seen on tv.

[Mitch]

I liked how he "came out," poor dishrag Iva, who apparently had no gaydar, was hot for him, and he had to come out to her, while sophisticated Babs was all, "And could you tell me something I didn't know???" I remember reading articles about Starcher at the time proclaiming his hetero ness, but was he or wasn't he in real life? I did hate that Hank had an offscreen boyfriend (annoying always refered to as "Charles,") and that he was dying of AIDS. But I think a offscreen was all Marland could do and a lot of gay men were dying back then.

I do think he was the first gay "male," on daytime TV, the rest were as you said confused and women, (not quite as yucky somehow for the audiences at the time.) I was kinda annoyed that AMC went all .."Look we have a gay man, we are the first," when it came years later (and played by the hot, but stiff and not believeably gay.

[Mitch]

He was impossibly hot, especially for back then, when everyone on TV didnt looked "ripped." But he was so out of place in Oakdale, where everyone else looked normal, (and no one is like "WOA where the hell did you come from Mr. Shirtless!" and he couldn't act to save his life. Didn't the strike come and they revealed him to be a psycho? I wonder what Marland's intentions for him were (well, I know what personally his intentions were but the character.) Wonder what he looks like now and what he is doing.

My favorite Margo. I heard HBS has a problem with other actresses, but she had the best chemistry with guys...(though her and Craig were a little "too," close holding each other, uh,Craig, thats your sister you freak!) Dolan never had the ummphh and warmth that HBS had. Sad as it is, I remember that dumb stock footage of the Parthenon to show we were in Greece.They showed it practically every scene!!!