I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

The writing for Craig was so awful. Recasts happen but the writers just spit on his history for the reason of what?  Showing Craig as a supposed “strong” man? I loved his relationship with Lucinda - love, hate, attraction, etc. They bring him back and he has people poison her to get Worldwide. WTH was that? She wanted him in her company - a more nuanced approach could have been his getting her to crown him king and keep the Walsh/Montgomery clan intact.

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The scenes with Margo, Craig, Lyla and Casey were all funny, sweet, touching, something that these characters (and the show) lost by the mid '90s. This is one of the reasons I just never could accept the changes to Craig and his relationships - Craig could be a selfish [!@#$%^&*], but he often loved his family. Scott Bryce had an ease and vulnerability no one else in the part could find.

When I watch these again I can understand why I was fond of Shannon at the time, as Margaret Reed is such an emotive, charismatic performer in these years (as shown in her last scene with Richard Burgi), but her stories just go nowhere by this point. The whole idea of morally upright Grant Coleman being evil or a killer is a nonstarter, even if James Douglas does a good job with the doubt. 

I was impressed with the relatively honest portrayal of homophobia and how it affects not just the gay character, but also the young straight men who battle with their homophobia and insecurity, and are targeted for being close to him. I've seen other episodes of the story which detail these things, but not sure any have ever done the contrast with Hank, Andy, and Paul as succinctly as this one. The f slur being thrown around makes this feel more real than I had expected. You would not get anything along these lines on a soap in the last few decades. Nor would you get the reality that only a handful of people would actually be close to Hank (especially poor Iva, who in real life probably would have spent half her time venting to gay men), with the most you get otherwise being apathy or hostility. 

I've wondered at times whether it was especially true to life for Hal to be son in Hank's corner, but I still appreciate it. 

I'm never sure why Marland didn't do more with Iva's biological father and his family. They just never feel very natural, and don't have enough impact on her life. It's a shame the woman who plays the nasty sister, Elizabeth, is so weak, as she is the only one in the group who is allowed to be flawed (as she has to move the plot along while her "good" family react to her). Elizabeth is the type of character you'd get more of on prestige dramas in the '00s and '10s. I wonder if Marland knew someone like her, and couldtn't stand her.

Seeing Lisa Brown and Liz Hubbard was a heartbreaker, but a reminder of what underrated, nuanced acting partners they always were together.

ita with everything you said. wanted to add: can only imagine what the budget must have been for this episode. 5 sets, which is not a lot, but i counted 25 characters, at least 20 on contract. 

those were the days…

Thanks for the link @DRW50

While I agree the writing for Craig was atrocious, I think the bigger problem was casting Hunt Block in the role. Block was a one-trick pony, really incapable of conveying anything other than an all-consuming self-interest. Block was given plenty of material to use as emmy bait, and only netted one nomination at a period in time when ATWT was awash in them. He was good at portraying a smug belief in his innate superiority, but not the ability to care about anyone else. And it's not like Craig wasn't given those moments, Block either couldn't, or didn't chose to play them. 

Meanwhile, Scott Bryce was able to give Craig a conscience in spite of even more atrocious writing.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

While I agree the writing for Craig was atrocious, I think the bigger problem was casting Hunt Block in the role. Block was a one-trick pony, really incapable of conveying anything other than an all-consuming self-interest. Block was given plenty of material to use as emmy bait, and only netted one nomination at a period in time when ATWT was awash in them. He was good at portraying a smug belief in his innate superiority, but not the ability to care about anyone else. And it's not like Craig wasn't given those moments, Block either couldn't, or didn't chose to play them. 

Meanwhile, Scott Bryce was able to give Craig a conscience in spite of even more atrocious writing.

agreed that the writing for craig was atrocious in the final years. funny thing, though,  about hunt block is that i really like him as ben warren on gl, when he did play the emotional layers. so i wonder if something else was going on. maybe what he was playing was closer to the vision chris goutman had for the character.

after scott bryce was fired in 2008, he gave an interview to michael logan and described his relationship with goutman as “odd, and disconnected,” then talked about how dark the show had become and suggested that maybe he “didn’t fit into that vision.” 

 

In a post above, I mentioned incorrectly that Farley Granger had begun his daytime career on One Life to Live.    That is incorrect; he had played Trent Archer on The Edge of Night previously.    I had forgotten since our local affiliate had dropped The Edge of Night for almost two years during the time that he was playing that role.

24 minutes ago, danfling said:

In a post above, I mentioned incorrectly that Farley Granger had begun his daytime career on One Life to Live.    That is incorrect; he had played Trent Archer on The Edge of Night previously.    I had forgotten since our local affiliate had dropped The Edge of Night for almost two years during the time that he was playing that role.

You were correct originally. Farley played the role of Will Vernon on One Life to Live from 1976 to 1977. He appeared as Trent Archer on The Edge of Night in September and October 1979. He was part of the Mansion of the Damned storyline with Kim Hunter. That storyline definitely aired in 1979-1980

1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

agreed that the writing for craig was atrocious in the final years. funny thing, though,  about hunt block is that i really like him as ben warren on gl, when he did play the emotional layers. so i wonder if something else was going on. maybe what he was playing was closer to the vision chris goutman had for the character.

after scott bryce was fired in 2008, he gave an interview to michael logan and described his relationship with goutman as “odd, and disconnected,” then talked about how dark the show had become and suggested that maybe he “didn’t fit into that vision.” 

 

When I used to post my criticisms of the show’s last 12-13 years and wrote about how horrible many of the characterizations were, a few people misunderstood and believed that I was belittling the actors themselves. This was never the case. When I talked about what an affront I found Craig to be in that final decade, I meant the characterization, not the actor. In fact, I mentioned more than once that I thought Hunt Block would have made a good Rick Ryan, a character that that had enough history for viewers to care but was enough of a blank slate to give a writer, director (were they still using them in those final years?) and actor a free hand.

 

Ah Scott Bryce, the diplomat. He was honest yet tactful in his interviews about that time. 

I tried to come up with an instance where I saw Hunt Block play any role with anything other than smarminess, and...I couldn't.

32 minutes ago, Khan said:

I tried to come up with an instance where I saw Hunt Block play any role with anything other than smarminess, and...I couldn't.

😂 which is why he would have been well cast for Rick Ryan, a character who was shady as hell.

38 minutes ago, Khan said:

I tried to come up with an instance where I saw Hunt Block play any role with anything other than smarminess, and...I couldn't.

i didn’t find portrayal of ben warren on gl at all swarmy,

Just now, wonderwoman1951 said:

i didn’t find portrayal of ben warren on gl at all swarmy,

I did.  At no time did I ever believe that Ben had anything but his own, personal, self-serving interests at heart.  Even when Paul Rauch/B&E tried to sell us on a Blake/Ross/Ben triangle, I didn't believe for one second that Ben had any romantic feelings for his sister-in-law (which annoyed me, because there was a time when Blake wouldn't have been so gullible).

To this day, I wish that either James DePaiva or Philip Brown had played the role instead.

9 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

😂 which is why he would have been well cast for Rick Ryan, a character who was shady as hell.

Except, I wouldn't have wanted for Rick to be so two-dimensional.  I would've wanted an actor who could put SOME emotional layers into that character so that he wouldn't come across simply as this out-and-out bastard who was beyond redemption or empathy.

21 minutes ago, Khan said:

I tried to come up with an instance where I saw Hunt Block play any role with anything other than smarminess, and...I couldn't.

Me either. I hated Ben Warren. 

Having loved Scott Bryce, I'm not sure I could've accepted anyone else in the role. I understand that at the time they needed a [!@#$%^&*]-stirrer to shake Oakdale up. And it's hard to come up with a character who'd have as many ties on the canvas (although they rarely, if ever truly used Craig's). Maybe a better solution would have been to import a shady AW character to screw with everyone's lives. Although honestly, I was hella annoyed by Tom Eplin smothering the canvas at the time too. 

10 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I understand that at the time they needed a [!@#$%^&*]-stirrer to shake Oakdale up. 

I do, too, @P.J..  However, I would have brought back Scott Eldridge for that function.  He, like Rick Ryan, was a virtual blank slate with a sketchy past and multiple ties on the canvas.  Plus, imagine playing "bad" Scott against his "good" half-brother, D.A. Tom, with their mother, Lisa, who was once Oakdale's most notorious "bad girl," caught in the middle.

Edited June 9, 20232 yr by Khan

That's the only other character I could come up with as well. I don't see Rick Ryan having the impact. He was a minor character they'd have had to unearth from the '70's (aside from a brief visit in the 80's to explain away Sabrina having survived), with no real ties to the canvas other than Barbara (who hadn't mentioned him) and Kim.

Scott was briefly involved with Lucinda, was Lisa's son, Tom's brother, and had a past with Carly (and Rosanna). Plus, while his past was defined, it wasn't as (for lack of a better word) restrictive. It might've made a lot more sense for Barbara to be attracted to someone didn't know as well, as opposed to Craig, who'd she'd co-existed with in Oakdale for at least 10 years without noticing. (and let's be real, Barb cut through Oakdale's male population like a hot knife through butter in the '80's).

Having just dumped Michael Wood's Alec Wallace, you would've thought they'd seek to layer their gray characters a little more. Instead, HB's Craig seems like a carbon copy rather than an upgrade. Which maybe isn't suprising, since they originally wanted to bring a new guy in the fall of '99, and it got pushed back due to Maura's pregnancy.

 

Edited June 9, 20232 yr by P.J.