As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Emily was just a pathetic loser more than anything else. At least KMH's version.

I think the show failed with vixens from the late 90s on because they treated them as a joke and as something to have no respect for, no depth, nothing. The last vixen or female villain on the show who had any layer was Carly in her first few years.

[NothinButAttitude]

I think that was the one thing that Doug Marland screwed up on IMO. I know that Rosanna was supposed to be his backup Lily, but he should've stopped while he was ahead. One Lily was enough.

And sassy and jaded Rosanna was the one thing that I commend HS for during his run. I just hate that he immediately declawed her and made her a baby obsessed idiot during the end of her run. CM is the only reason why I'd like Rosanna in later years.

Oh and I am one of the few that actually liked Rosanna and Paul. That was the only pairing that RH's Paul shined in. He was OK with Emily but Paul and Meg nearly drove me over the freaking edge. I was glad when Meg went nutty in the end. It was the best thing to happen to that character in a long time.

[Mitch]

Don't forget Courtney, short, plain Courtney was also a world class model who was going to set the world on fire!

LOL on all the company mentions on ATWT..I like business stories but also could care less..Marland seemed to think the only jobs people had were corporate sharks, doctors, lawyers, cops and farmers!

At least GL always kept it Spaulding and Lewis...though EVERYONE who worked at Spaulding was a Vice President!

[DRW50]

And authors (if their last name was Snyder...).

I'd forgotten Courtney was a model. I guess that was for the bulimia story.

I keep trying to remember if he almost made Lily a model too (through Lucinda's machinations). Maybe not.

Edited February 4, 2015 by DRW50

[SoapDope]

I loved the Janice/Kim story. It was a refreshing change from all the storylines going on at the time. I couldn't stand Courtney either. I thought she looked like a teenage boy.

When I think of Rosanna I throw up a little. I remember being baffled when Yvonne Perry was nominated for an award within months of her debut.

[slick jones]

No offense to Hayley Barr, but she looked more like Andy's brother than his wife. The styling for her was tragic...and she was supposed to be a model . I thought she was a sweet character, but ....

[Paul Raven]

Back to the Irna Phillips era Sept 27 1965

Ellen is at a crossroads: she must decide between two men, only one of whom can reunite her with her long-lost son. Ellen has received marriage proposals from both Don and David, and although she has secretly agreed to marry Don, they have not made the announcement. And yet marrying David would reunite her with her son, Dan. While Ellen contemplates her situation, the Hughes and Cassen families wonder if, when, and whom she will choose to marry. Meanwhile, Henry is in critical condition and Bob will be treating him along with a consulting physician. But Bob is torn about whether to work with his colleague David or with Doug Cassen.

I didn't realize that Ellen was actually that close to marrying Don. Is Henry Lisa's father?

[Mitch]

I didn't know this. When David and Ellen broke up the Dobson's should have brought a recast Don back to hook up with her, instead of some nobody Dr. that she screwed once or twice. Would be cool to see Ellen being like "Well, what if my life was different and I wasnt stuck with sour puss David?"

[Paul Raven]

That synopsis hints that a major motivation for Ellen marrying David was to get close to her son.

Maybe that wasn't the case as David and Ellen remained happily married for years.The wedding was lavish by standards of the time.

The fact that Pat Bruder's pregnancies were written in also solidifies Ellen and David as a happy couple as I'm sure Irna would not have allowed a young mother to have any major marital problems.

Going back to Feb 23 65

Chris tells Pa about a rare disease that Dan has contracted, for which the prognosis does not look good. Chris explains that he feels that Ellen should be told the truth about Dan, given what may happen to her son. When the news is revealed to Ellen, she is very upset and asks to go the hospital to see Dan. She finds that he is in the same room in which she gave birth to him. While waiting to see Dan, Ellen thinks back to the time at which he was known as "Jimmy." She finds that Dan has been mumbling the word "mom" over and over again in his sleep, and she believes that this may be a good sign. She decides to keep vigil by his bed.

By Nov 1st

the Cassens and the Hughes learn that Ellen has agreed to marry David. When Ellen tells Claire, Doug, and Judge Lowell about her engagement, they are shocked because they had been certain that she would marry Donald. Doug even confronts David, accusing him of taking advantage of Ellen's love for her son, Dan. The Hughes also had been certain that Donald would marry Ellen, until he shared the news of the broken engagement at Grandpa Hughes's birthday celebration. Ultimately, Ellen and David are the only ones who seem pleased with the turn of events

Edited February 8, 2015 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

It's a shame they didn't go further with Ellen's estrangement from friends and family.

Isn't that the disease that would later kill Dan?

[Paul Raven]

Not sure about Dan's later illness but it would have been interesting had there been a re-occurrence,

Of course killing off Dan was a mistake.I understand that Dan and Kim had run their course and have read that the John Reilly Dan was the preferred actor in the pairing but ditching a legacy character (especially as his brother Paul had also been killed) was unwise.Instead have Dan's illness affect his judgement and have him leave for parts unknown would have been preferrable, leaving the door open for Dan return later to spoil Kim and a later partner.

Or even return with a new wife and child.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Paul Raven

[P.J.]

According to my book, Dan's illness in '65 was encephalitis. Dan died of a brain tumor years later. Paul also died of a brain tumor.

[Paul Raven]

Paul's death was also totally unnecessary.He could have simply left town to get away from the whole Dan/Liz saga.

Irna seemed to want to punish the characters for what the writers had done to them in her absence.

Dec 16 1965

Bob fights Lisa in a custody battle for Tom. When Lisa took Tom to live with her in Chicago, she neglected to tell anybody -- including Bob, Tom, or the court -- that she had already remarried. As Tom tells the judge, he was deeply hurt when he arrived in Chicago and found that his mother had lied to him and already had a new husband. His mother's dishonesty has made him reconsider his decision to leave Oakdale. After hearing Lisa's testimony and having a private conversation with Tom, the judge arrives at a decision that puts Tom in the care of the most responsible parent. But Tom is in a no-win situation, no matter what the judge rules.

Dec 24 65

In this episode, it is Christmas Eve as Chris Hughes and Pa Hughes discuss the Hughes family and Chris's wife Nancy, who is recovering from an operation. Meanwhile, at the Cassen home, Doug, Claire, and Judge Lowell discuss their Christmas plans and the date of Ellen and David's wedding. At their home, Dan Stewart and Paul Stewart discuss the gifts they've bought for Suzy and Ellen and wonder why Franny doesn't seem to like Ellen. As David Stewart and Ellen Cole admire a Christmas tree, Ellen tells David about a Christmas long ago when she was pregnant. Their conversation is interrupted by Paul and Dan, who opens a gift from his grandmother. Later, David tells Ellen he already knew about her child.

Is Suzy Susan Burke(later to become Susan Stewart)?

Edited February 10, 2015 by Paul Raven

[Paul Raven]

I did some quick research on the character of Susan Burke Stewart. Most cast lists have her beginning in 66 but it is not unlikely that she was around in late 65.As we have seen with The Doctors being replayed,a lot of dates are off.

Connie Scott is listed as the first Susan.I found a pic of her in the feature film Flipper from 1963 and she looks about 12.Luke Halpin her co star, was 15 and playing 12 so that would be about right.

That would make her 15/16 by the time she was on ATWT. Jeffrey Rowland was 17 at this time.

The next Susan Diana Walker was 25 in 1968 and she was replaced by Jada Rowland who was also 25.

So at some point Dan and Susan took a major age leap.I wonder how this played onscreen. Were Dan and Susan away for a while?

John Colenback was 29 when he began plating Dan in 66.So he was aged down and poor Pat Bruder was aged way up.

[DRW50]

To me Dan's death sort of made sense storywise, but Paul's definitely did not.

Is the 65 stuff when Eileen was back to finish out her story, or was she back for good?

Promo about a minute into this of the somewhat silly "Lily in Montega" story (this story ended with her getting a scar, which probably would have led to more story if Martha hadn't quit).

I think the guy with Cricket is Alexander Walters (Mark Kasnoff).