ATWT: August 2010 discussion

[dragonflies]

So what's the history with Kim & John? Were they married?

[DRW50]

Kim and John got together when she wanted to pass her and Bob's unborn child off as his, I think (that was Sabrina, at the time Kim thought it was a stillbirth). Then she fell in love with Dan Stewart, but John plotted to keep her at his side, using his paralysis, ultimately faking paralysis, raping her, and so on.

Watching some of today's episode, and it was nice to see them have a moment where Lisa grieved alone. It's a shame that they have made her so old and sad most of the time.

Great to see Lucinda with the Hughes, and of course Susan. Great to see her again. Marie Masters does not age!

I was pleasantly surprised that they DID mention Mac -- that was the flashback where Tom was talking to Nancy after Mac's death. A good reminder that as bad as the Black and Stern tenure was, they did write for the vets.

[dragonflies]

Thanks!

Kim mentioned Andy is that her and John's son?

[DRW50]

Yes.

Andy

[DeeeDee]

Andy

Seriously.

[Actor87]

Susan Dansby wrote the memorial episode.

The Casey/Alison & Chris/Katie angst really threw the focus from the show. Just when I started to get weepy remembering Nancy/Helen, Chris would wince from pain, or Alison would voice doubt about marrying Casey.

The flashbacks they chose were great...well, minus the pearls one. I'm thinking they chose the Katie clip (pre-Jack marriage) only because of the line Nancy had: "pearls...and nothing else". It's also tricky for TPTB to pick a clip that doesn't have previous actors portraying current roles, such as Margo, Casey, etc.

I would have liked to have seen the whole cast pay tribute. I promise you: pretty much every single character on the show (with the exception of a few) have had at least one scene with Nancy.

For such a legendary actress and such an integral character, I would think the show would've stepped it up a notch. Is it too much to ask to bring back all of Nancy's kids? Or other missing Huges family members? Even including the whole cast, like I said above. TPTB skipped the funeral route; which, I can see, is a kind-of-genius move since nothing would meet everyone's expectations, and I'm sure it would be too emotional for the cast. And as much as I appreciate the sentiment of everyone volunteering good deeds like Nancy, it would have been nice to see (more of) everyone individually reflecting on their time with Nancy.

The last scene: big fat FAIL. Showing Katie in the midst of another "woe is me" meltdown..in Nancy's apartment..while everyone pays tribute to her in Old Town?? It was just flat out wrong!! The prayer scene should've been the final scene (how beautiful was that!!). Or perhaps a scene where we see Bob & Kim (in their home...gasp!), voicing their thoughts about Nancy's passing and how much she meant to Oakdale, and how much Oakdale meant to her.

What's done is done, though, I suppose. There's no way to go back and fix anything. And I'm sure everyone has a different opinion of what the tribute episode should've been like. Bottom line is: Nancy Hughes and Helen Wagner were both women full of loyalty, honor, integrity, humor, heart, and loads of advice. They will BOTH be missed terribly!

[DRW50]

I would have liked to have seen the whole cast pay tribute. I promise you: pretty much every single character on the show (with the exception of a few) have had at least one scene with Nancy.

I'm not sure if Janet did. Otherwise we would have seen the Cicciones mourning for Nancy.

Oakdalian posted the Chris Hughes goodbye episodes some time back and those also didn't have a funeral. I think this makes some sense. Back then it made sense because it gave the impression that Chris was so beloved, the entire town, countless people, would have been there for him. This time it makes sense because they didn't bring back many who loved Nancy. The real flaw IMO is that they did not mention any of them. No mentions of Don, Penny, Andy, Sabrina, Frannie. They have mentioned these characters before -- why not today?? They could have even used that tacky line GL used when Maureen died and they said the Reardons were all elsewhere having a private goodbye.

They got so many little details right. They remembered Nancy was a teacher. They mentioned Susan and how much Susan's death had hurt Nancy. They talked about her volunteer work (I agree that those scenes about them going out to do charity work didn't quite fit). Yet the other stuff that I thought they might remember went unnoticed.

The whole "poor me" attitude with Katie is what annoyed me most about the last scene, especially since it was so un-Nancy. It turned Nancy into yet another of Katie's burdens. So much of Chris's scenes being with Katie also reinforced the lingering feeling that Chris has never fit into the Hughes family, perhaps because they have recast the role so many times.

Marnie S. is a good actress and Billy Magnusson could have been the most dynamic younger leading man in years, but Allison/Casey are just so dull and their problems are trivial. Honestly I think they should have married them off months ago if they were going to pair them together and have them leave town and have Casey and Allison return for a few visits.

As someone who once loved Tom and Margo and now isn't overly involved I have to say I REALLY liked the scene where they were in the classroom and when they walked out we saw a close-up of their entwined hands. That's the type of sweet little moment, just natural, which I haven't seen with Tom and Margo in a long time.

[DRW50]

The flashbacks they chose were great...well, minus the pearls one. I'm thinking they chose the Katie clip (pre-Jack marriage) only because of the line Nancy had: "pearls...and nothing else". It's also tricky for TPTB to pick a clip that doesn't have previous actors portraying current roles, such as Margo, Casey, etc.

I thought the Lucinda/John scene was a bit forced too, I didn't think the flashback fit in with what they were talking about, although I did appreciate them using the old footage they had (that full episode with Lisa and Bob and their sleeping arrangements is on Youtube, BTW, if anyone hasn't seen it yet).

It's weird seeing John now, as he's aged a bit and seems kind of slightly out of the groove since he hasn't been on a soap in six years, but still great to see him, and I loved the line he had with Lucinda about her and Lily falling out -- basically "Nothing ever changes."

[Jay]

Yes.

Andy

Yes.

[P.J.]

But surely TIIC could have found better clips for Babs, Susan and Lisa to remember Nancy with than that idiotic one from "Divas on a Bus".

What annoys me most about the focus being on Katie is that it's CHRIS who's dying, and it's CHRIS who's Nancy's grandson. The Casey/Ali part of it isn't focused on Ali that exclusively---it's Casey who suggested everyone find a way to honor Nancy. TIIC obviously planned to have Chris have a medical crisis, and 95% of the story seems to be focused on whether or not Katie can find love again. WHO gives a crap? If there's ANYTHING this viewer knows, it's that Katie will "soldier on" and have fantastic sex again with her next soulmate.

And I was a little let down---it seems ever since the plans for the show about Nancy's death were announced, it was implied the ENTIRE cast would be a part of it. Yes, I realize that may have been ambitious and budget busting to have everyone in the episode, but I was hoping more along the lines of seeing all the characters have a moment of reflection upon hearing the news, even if they weren't exactly seen mourning Nancy at some wake/funeral. They could have spread that out over two or three days, and been the springboard to everyone making life-changing decisions.

[DRW50]

I agree with you that they could have spread it out a bit more. I guess they were caught off guard and wrote in as quickly as they could, which seems like more of the make it up as we go along mentality they employ. I didn't mind the divas flashback too much as I don't remember Barbara or Lucinda having a ton of scenes with Nancy (although I know there must have been some...I think Barbara had some, beyond the usual Hughes family gatherings, when she was in her crazy period around 2001-2004 or whenever).

I do wish they'd had more of Lisa on her own and didn't write Lisa as being so depressed in the show's final months. Since Lisa is probably not getting a happy ending, that's not a great way to end a 50 year character.

What annoys me most about the focus being on Katie is that it's CHRIS who's dying, and it's CHRIS who's Nancy's grandson

They might have felt that viewers wouldn't care about Chris, since he has been recast so many times. Perhaps that's why they recast him with a popular soap actor and also why they made him all about Katie. It's just difficult to be invested because Chris is just...there, and Katie is the same as always. I actually did believe the Katie/Nancy friendship but I didn't buy that last scene at all, it just seemed very shallow, like she was going to morph into Carrie Bradshaw. I think somewhere in the show's mind they assume a lot of viewers associate with Katie and see her as themselves or as what they want to be, so perhaps her reaction was supposed to be ours.

[Mitch]

I agree with you that they could have spread it out a bit more. I guess they were caught off guard and wrote in as quickly as they could, which seems like more of the make it up as we go along mentality they employ. I didn't mind the divas flashback too much as I don't remember Barbara or Lucinda having a ton of scenes with Nancy (although I know there must have been some...I think Barbara had some, beyond the usual Hughes family gatherings, when she was in her crazy period around 2001-2004 or whenever).

I do wish they'd had more of Lisa on her own and didn't write Lisa as being so depressed in the show's final months. Since Lisa is probably not getting a happy ending, that's not a great way to end a 50 year character.

Yea, I don't mind Katie as Nancy's "grand-daughter," she is a Hughes by extension, which if Marland was writing that, you would indeed *be* a Hughes in much the same way Lisa and Barbara are considered a Hughes (never liked Hogan's insistance on trying to make the Ryan's a shoot of of its own, and a form of the Steinbeck family...Marland wrote them as just the dsyfunctional arm of the Hughes family..) At least its not "Keerrlly," who gets the Nancy drama...or as others have said, that boring Janet chick. I think the Chris storyline was planned ahead and they had to write Nancy's death in at the last minute (as others have said also..) but this Dansby woman seems to be the best script writer they have and from her tweets really seems to be into ATWT history and like and respect Wagner/Nancy..so I am glad they got it in that one episode and not let some hack get to it. I think the Chris character has suffered from recasts, but I think that the actor is a good fit for the role if not for one thing, I still think of him as Bill Lewis being in Oakdale. I guess it was too soon and the characters are too similar (good boy but kinda lost in the family, son of two beloved core characters who the viewers saw "grow up,") to make it work. Too bad that he couldnt have been recast as Chris years ago at the same time he started on GL.

I havent seen this episode but I don't see Lisa as being depressed. She seems the same fiesty, kinda bitchy, flighty fun loving broad as she always was. I do think that maybe part of this comes because they treat her like an embarrassment (would love to know what happened for them to treat Fulton this way, the rest of the vets seem to be treated nicely with more airtime then I would expect from the craptastic "new," soap regimes.) I would love for them to just show that Lisa was happy, traveling the world, and she didn't need a man (not everyone "needs," to have someone to be happy.) and that she "grew," up and is okay with being "alone." Would be nice but it wont happen.

[DRW50]

She has had a fun style in the Bob and Kim wedding episodes and then with the anniversary (although that had a sad undertone), it's just the overall nature of most of her recent appearances, like they have her just there, taking up space, being alone.

Too bad they couldn't bring Grant back. Or if Cris Leblanc had been willing, have Kirk McColl show up to visit and she falls for one of the never before seen McColls or something and they could leave together. Or she could just leave to be with Scott, if they could bring back Doug Wert or Joe Breen for a day.

[dragonflies]

IMO it was better than I ever thought we would get. Honestly it could have been worse, they could have solely focused on Janet, or even Paul and his psycho wife

[Mitch]

She has had a fun style in the Bob and Kim wedding episodes and then with the anniversary (although that had a sad undertone), it's just the overall nature of most of her recent appearances, like they have her just there, taking up space, being alone.

Too bad they couldn't bring Grant back. Or if Cris Leblanc had been willing, have Kirk McColl show up to visit and she falls for one of the never before seen McColls or something and they could leave together. Or she could just leave to be with Scott, if they could bring back Doug Wert or Joe Breen for a day.

I understand what you are saying but I think Lisa, much to the protestations of her younger days when she wanted to see the world, is happy as a clam in Oakdale. She has the hundreds of business she runs, her family is there, I just would like to have her say, "For the first time in my life, I am not looking for something else, I am not looking for a man, or a new business, or looking to get into some kind of trouble, I am happy with being good old Lisa Miller." or something to that effect.

I do agree that the depressing thing is that she just pops out of no where, and seems to be an afterthought. I also think the problem is they always show her with Kim and Bob (throw all the old people in at once)as opposed to being with Tom and Margo (not that I blame her, they arent them most fun thing going in town) or really her grandkids. That is really where Lisa would like to be, with the young people, helping them to straighten their messes, etc. Why they didnt work her in with Casey (the young actor has a great rapport with all the vets) and Allison, who despite being so uh, unenergetic, they are tying to make a young vixen. Marland always had the new people work with Fulton, as the said she always was very good with them as an actress and she gives Lisa a very protective maternal feel working with them. I would even like Casey to be kind of embarrased by his grandmother, as she comes out wrapped in a feather boa and on her way home at three in the morning, etc.