.

I'm still thinking Sony and CBS are forcing the rushed pace.

Sheffer does this on all his soaps. He probably hates soaps and the soap format.

Besides, other stories are as slow as molasses when that's what the show wants, like the Ryder/Daisy crapola.

Sheffer does this on all his soaps. He probably hates soaps and the soap format.

Besides, other stories are as slow as molasses when that's what the show wants, like the Ryder/Daisy crapola.

True that!

I'm thinking they're making that one up as they go along.

I'm still thinking Sony and CBS are forcing the rushed pace. If so, I'm hoping the recent survey (if many people say "too fast") might slow things down and lead to a more deliberate pacing. We'll see.

Let's not go there Mark, Maria has had problems with pacing and execution since she started, Sheffer's horrible pacing ad execution habits were evident on both ATWT and DAYS, and Scott Hamner came from the School of Latham and if you saw his tenure at PC, you'd know how horribly paced and executed his lame stories were.

These horrible writing traits couldn't have been forced when it's followed these people from show to show or if it's been evident since day one.

True that!

I'm thinking they're making that one up as they go along.

I'm thinking they're making this ENTIRE SHOW UP AS THEY GO ALONG.

From where I can see, it doesn't look like much planning or thought went into any of these stories.

Edited January 16, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Mark is hopeless...

The ratings for the show are still holding steady, so I guess there are a lot of people who are enjoying the show. Why I don't know. I think Mark has a valid perspective on a lot of these stories and characters. The only part I strongly disagree with is CBS/Sony interference. That touches the show in some ways, yes, but the pacing and casting and generally awful muddle of the show seems too similar to previous Rauch and Hamner and Sheffer programs.

Right, I guess you had to see these writers or producers on past shows to know what their traits are, which I'm guessing Mark never watched their past work on prior shows.

ITA! Everything was all wrong in the reveal. I hated the lack of background music too. Victor's return should've had a kickass score too. Y&R always had the best music DIRECTION and it always enhanced the scene. Not anymore. Rauch sucks.

I just watched again, and I suppose there was SOME background music in those scenes, but it was so puny and nondescript, it just flew right past me today while I was watching live.

Edited January 16, 201015 yr by alphanguy74

Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the quadruple reveal wasn't all that. The whole thing felt rather anti-climatic although I had to smirk when Victor's portrait fell off the wall while Adam and Nick fought. The Tucker reveal came way too soon I mean the character has been on for only a month and is about to recasted. Yes it does make Katherine look like a total fool. The JoJo beat could have been played out for a while. I'm sure next Friday

it will be revealed the twin is not Cane and Lily's

. God the pacing of this show blows.

This stuff with Tucker/Jojo sucks and is so rushed. Why not build Tucker messing with everyones lives over a period of time, then reveal this? Why not actually play up Nikki and even Gloria as possibilities? You could show the old clips from the early 80s where Kay's country club friends accused her of hiding the fact that Nikki was her daughter. Of course they were just assuming based on their close relationship, but there you go! Something to work with.

This stuff with Tucker/Jojo sucks and is so rushed. Why not build Tucker messing with everyones lives over a period of time, then reveal this? Why not actually play up Nikki and even Gloria as possibilities? You could show the old clips from the early 80s where Kay's country club friends accused her of hiding the fact that Nikki was her daughter. Of course they were just assuming based on their close relationship, but there you go! Something to work with.

That would involve actually knowing the show's history, or writing for a soap. This is the lowered expectations show. Things become rotgut for long stretches of time and a few half-cooked scraps are thrown at us as some sort of appeasement.

As DeeeDee has said, the contempt they have for the fans is really amazing.

So, on my walk this morning, I started thinking about the Tucker reveal, and why it was so off. In my mind, here are the pieces:

- it was not a surprise; I think the lid was kept on spoilers, but Tucker's identity was GUESSED long ago

- William Russ is too understated for this particular high drama

- Alphanguy has highlighted some of the errors in production (lack of grand music...no pregnant pause with a camera on Jeanne's horrified face)

But, there are other real problems too

- Tucker should have been around a LOT longer, ingratiating himself into the family, becoming a part of the fabric of GC before he pull this. That would have elevated the betrayal and made us care more

- It really doesn't work that Tucker has the EXACT SAME BACKSTORY as Victor. Abandoned in an orphanage; angry every since. I realize he was originally meant as a "replacement"...but did they literally have to clone the backstory? Braeden did this story with Dorothy McGuire a quarter century ago

- Tucker's been around long enough to know that there is some regret on Kay's part about the abandonment. So why did he still go ahead? Why didn't he take the time to get to know Kay?

- Bedding Jill makes him seem callous and a user; so there is no likeability. If he hurts Jill, who has a lot of fans, he loses fans.

I'm hoping that the recasting of Tucker by the lithe, panther-like Nichols will turn this into a different character with more shadings and more rootability.

But alas, the first huge beat of this tale was squandered.

(It also strikes me that the way they underplayed this reveal is further evidence that they're trying to deny their identity as a soap. Rather than risking mockery on The Soup for having a big moment, they underplay the moment. I think if you're gonna be a soap, you need to just embrace that you're a melodrama, and move forward with that).

Those are all great points. I didn't remember that he and Victor share the same backstory. I guess that was just in case Braeden didn't return.

I think the show sees Jill as just a somewhat pathetic old crone, and assume fans have the same opinion of her. Therefore, Tucker using her for sex won't be a big deal; we're probably supposed to think she was lucky to even have a man.

(It also strikes me that the way they underplayed this reveal is further evidence that they're trying to deny their identity as a soap. Rather than risking mockery on The Soup for having a big moment, they underplay the moment. I think if you're gonna be a soap, you need to just embrace that you're a melodrama, and move forward with that).

I think the show is run by people who look down on soaps. That may be one of the reasons some of them seem so in need of validation, both on the show and in the press (the fawning Branco interviews). And thanks to moments like them getting nominated for a DGA on that AWFUL episode where Colleen went up to LSD heaven and saw her dear friends like Kevin, they will be even more inspired to keep on going.

I'm hoping that the recasting of Tucker by the lithe, panther-like Nichols will turn this into a different character with more shadings and more rootability.

Now that Braeden is back, I wonder if they will be able to resist the urge to have Tucker go insane and start raping Esther. Perhaps they will hold back, just as a hold on Braeden, like when Gloria Monty temporarily recast Frisco when Jack Wagner wanted more money, then kept the actor around in another role, praising him to the skies just to make Wagner more wary of walking out.

Edited January 16, 201015 yr by CarlD2

So, on my walk this morning, I started thinking about the Tucker reveal, and why it was so off. In my mind, here are the pieces:

ITA with you there...the entire thing was off and something is not right!!! I can't put my finger on it just yet. They did say that they replaced William with Stephen as they are taking the role in another direction so I guess I will wait until after the Jan 27 to see what gives. But even for ridiculous writing, this was way too easy for this viewer.

It would have been nice to get a few scenes with Tucker calling the acquisitive company's shareholders and showing him buying up the stock etc..the entire thing lost its punch for me.

Edited January 16, 201015 yr by JimTolkien

I've managed to find the Tucker reveal on YouTube...

Holy [!@#$%^&*] [!@#$%^&*]. What has happened to Y&R? Even Jeanne Cooper is acting like she doesn't give a [!@#$%^&*] anymore. It's horrid! Everything looks terrible, the lighting, the music is all wrong, the sets look worn out, the wardrobe is hideous, the pacing must SUCK, everything is absolutely disgustingly horrific!