Billy Vs. Nick is horrible.

Way to ruin two more characters Maria.

So that pretty much only leaves Esther as the only untouched character on the show? Mostly everyone else has undergone desperate character transformation.

Oh no, way, even she had to go back into her uniform.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by dmarex

So that pretty much only leaves Esther as the only untouched character on the show?

She has to deal with Chloe.

That's punishment enough.

She has to deal with Chloe.

That's punishment enough.

Yeah, but that seems interesting. She should be dealing with a tough daughter and they should have slowly built their relationship. It would have been interesting if we had better writers. This way, all the organic stuff will just be left aside.

It would have been interesting if we had better writers.

Bingo.

Ashley is so scorned and decadent - LOVE Ashley.

I don't see a lot of difference from any other version of slightly out of it, Victor-obsessed Ashley we've gotten since her return.

She was so scorned that she went down to berate her brother about a mild hit piece on "the father of [her] children."

I finally have to say this.

Having watched this show since 17 years, I can honestly say.....

Whose writing this crap?! I have NEVER seen this this bad in my life. It can be real good from day to day, but there is no vision AT ALL with this writing team. I can't even read any news about future SLs because the damns things are always being re-written or just stopped all together.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time to kick these people to the curb and get someone back in there who understands what Y&R is.

My goodness. Like having the runs watching this show.

That was Michael???? I didn't even recognize CLB.

That's a little game that got played. That was Michael Scott (played by Nicholas Benedict), not Michael Baldwin. Scott was hired as a Jabot photographer, and promptly began an affair with Jabot's new model, Julia Newman (Victor Newman's young wife at the time, played by Meg Bennett). Once Victor found out...a dungeon was summarily constructed in the house. Victor had CCTV all over the house, so Michael could watch him interacting with and sleeping with Julia. And Victor fed him rats.

I had to chime in - glad that so many people are enjoying the show today, don't know why but it just feels good cause I've been immensely enjoying the action. The classic Victor scenes were wonderfully interwoven. The fact that Faith is Victor's granddaughter, not daughter makes the whole thing more interesting. They've really struck gold with Victor and Nikki - they've still got it. I love this show. It feels like home to me. It's definitely hasty, as EB pointed out, but so swooping!!!

I like them making Billy the black sheep and going against the grain. Nick vs. Billy REALLY works. Don't know why but these two seem like perfect rivals. Nick's so frat boy and Billy's so....dirty and funny. It just inexplicably works! What a perfect rivalry!

Ashley is so scorned and decadent - LOVE Ashley. Oh Y&R is doing everything right and I don't have to be sad cause Braeden's coming back!

Win for all!

So I agree. I don't know what it is you and I are missing. Why is an evolving rivalry between Nick and Billy (Billy slept with NICK'S SOUL MATE!!!) such a bad thing? Next generation rivalry works for me.

I don't see a lot of difference from any other version of slightly out of it, Victor-obsessed Ashley we've gotten since her return.

She was so scorned that she went down to berate her brother about a mild hit piece on "the father of [her] children."

If "since her return" you mean 1998 (or whenever it was that she came back, after DOOL) I'd agree with you. That was the incarnation of Ashley that looked at his picture in his office, realized she was still in love with him, and promptly stole his sperm. That's the version of Ashley that went crazy when she had cancer, and had to let Abby know Victor was her daddy. That was the version of Ashley that was so baby-obsessed, she walked around carrying an empty blanket and called it Robert.

The Ashley of today is very inconsistent with that version of Ashley, of course.... (The Alden-Smith version). And she's very inconsistent with the Bill Bell version (who had her go crazy twice, once over losing Victor's child). I see enormous differences between the Ashley of then and the Ashley of now (not!).

==========

Excuse this last part in bold, but something struck me with an earlier post.

It is odd that they showed two outstanding enemies of TGVN's in those flashbacks--psycho Rick Daros and scorned Michael Scott. Both have unresolved bones to pick.

Although I don't understand all the connections, you don't think one of these guys is either behind Ryder and Ryder's mom, or is the abusive cat who disfigured Patty while she was living away from Genoa City, do you??? Or that one of these guys will turn out to be "Tucker"??

Showing these two past enemies (and maybe mentioning Derek Thurstone too...who could conceivably have some bones to pick with Jill/Kay/Victor) feels vaguely like planting seeds....

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by MarkH

So I agree. I don't know what it is you and I are missing. Why is an evolving rivalry between Nick and Billy (Billy slept with NICK'S SOUL MATE!!!) such a bad thing? Next generation rivalry works for me.

If "since her return" you mean 1998 (or whenever it was that she came back, after DOOL) I'd agree with you.

I hated most of Ashley's stories after her 1999 return, but I don't think, until this return, Ashley was completely isolated from everyone but Victor. That used to be Nikki's job. The whole point of Ashley was that even though she was obsessed with Victor, she had a career, she had other complicated relationships, both with men and with her family. Most of that is gone now. She's this crazy lady living at the ranch, going around squawking if Victor's name is blasphemed.

I don't think people object to a rivalry if there are good reasons. The problem is a lot of the wannabe alphas on the show go chest-bumping just for the sake of it, not because the story makes sense. That's one of the reasons the Cane/Billy rivalry fell flat.

When Nick flares his nostrils over Billy, all I keep wondering is why he doesn't show a tenth as much anger towards the man who gave his daughter brain damage.

I think the show did a lot of damage to the idea of Sharon being Nick's soul mate when he so casually used her while he was married to Phyllis. He knew she was having bad mental problems and he still had sex with her, repeatedly. She was a receptacle, not a soulmate.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by CarlD2

Billy and Nick would be okay, but I think I'd like a Billy vs. Adam even better for some reason. Maybe bc with Nick he's such a wimp, with Billy and Adam, neither is afraid to get dirty, like Victor and Jack.

I don't think people object to a rivalry if there are good reasons. The problem is a lot of the wannabe alphas on the show go chest-bumping just for the sake of it, not because the story makes sense. That's one of the reasons the Cane/Billy rivalry fell flat.

How many rivalries has BM's Billy had? First it was Cane, Victor, Chance, and now Nick. I guess you could include Jack for a while after he slept with Sharon and Raul. He's only been here a year.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by lovely_m

How many rivalries has BM's Billy had? First it was Cane, Victor, Chance, and now Nick. I guess you could include Jack for a while after he slept with Sharon and Raul. He's only been here a year.

I don't see that as a necessarily bad thing. This character is an agitator...he gets into it with people.

Doesn't that kind of make him Jill's son? I don't see her having a lot of friends.

The deeper question is "motivation". We could believe he was angry because he'd been deprived of Mac. But now he's not deprived...and he's still angry.

So what's really eating him? It sounds like he's chafing at being the Junior Abbott...but that doesn't explain his constant tendency to conflict with people.

Maybe Dr. Emily can have a go at him! I suspect being shuffled off to boarding school is part of his deal, too...although David Tom's Billy seemed to get over that.

I'm kind of stunned. Heinle decided to pull her head out her ass and actually ACT today. Let's hope it lasts, but I'm not holding my breath. Now.... didn't Clementine look REALLY GOOD in her costume? She should wear the 60's eyeliner and false lashes every day... it really becomes her. I got a kick out of Hendrickson and her Barbarella costume. The wig looks strange on her, but the whole thing was cute and fun.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

When Nick flares his nostrils over Billy, all I keep wondering is why he doesn't show a tenth as much anger towards the man who gave his daughter brain damage.

Pretty much.

This character is an agitator

He's a plot device.

Billy Miller's Billy is NOT Billy.

Doesn't that kind of make him Jill's son?

David Tom's Billy. Yes.

Billy Miller's Billy. Hell no.

She was so scorned that she went down to berate her brother about a mild hit piece on "the father of [her] children."

Exactly.

A lot of which she herself said TO Victor.