Y&R episode discussion

[DRW50]

For me it was Nikki as a beached whale in Mexico. Poor MTS. And the lesson of that story is that repeatedly wishing a woman dead just makes her even more convinced of your love for her.

[alphanguy74]

Well, the Sheila/Lauren thing was different, but I can and DO draw parallels between this and the Knots baby switch. There was no REAL motivation with THAT, except that Abby felt threatened by Val having those kids, and made some off handed comment to a shady dude who took her FAR too seriously, so I think what made it interesting was the Abby dynamic more than the Val one. When she found out what had happened, she was trying to find out where the twins went behind the scenes, but was it because she was covering her butt... or because she didn't want to tip anyone off so they could bolt with the babies? And then LUSCIOUS twist where Karen and Mac chase Ackerman out of the hotel... Karen stops him by T-boning him with the car, and he blows his brains out. Made the plot alot murkier. I just think THIS is tryikng to copy that... I wouldn't think they'd DARE have Dr. Taylor commit suicide, but if they do.... HEAVEN HELP US ALL. Plagarism is some people's friend, I suppose. Even I am distrubed by the amount of darkness right now. I could handle it for a few months, but now it's TOO MUCH. But look at shows like Private Practice, and this whole sick "Nut job cutting baby from the womb" story. Modern viewers seem to eat this crap up. That kind of thing is what seems to sell nowadays, much to my consternation. That's why most of my nights are spent watching DVD's of shows from 30 years ago. The only beacon in this sea of crap nowadays is Brothers and Sisters. THAT is drama done right!

[bellcurve]

Just got done watching Monday's episode.

Wow. This show is pathetic. It's like a midwestern Sunset Beach without the pop-culture references and slut actresses in low-cut blouses.

"Braindead."?

"You're making the right decision by taking her off life support."??

I can't even believe a doctor would even use terms like that.

UGH. This is so annoying.

[DRW50]

I'm so annoyed that they're

[Cheap21]

I felt so bad for Sharon. What has been done to her has been incredibly cruel. Its one of the most despicable and heartless thing you can do to a woman and no one deserves this.

Is Patty done with the show or will we be seeing her agian in the future?

[MarkH]

I guess you mean the strange lip-biting as his sole emotional reaction to the 'death' of Faith? Yes, sadly, I agree.

Look, I'm in agreement that the show is not very good right now. But I can't sign on to it being "as bad, if not worse". Said differently, it's bad in a DIFFERENT way. At the end of LML, my personal problem with it was that I no longer recognized the characters. Jill and Kay drinking tea. Ashley gone--but before that a dried out old harridan. Nikki and Jack as RIVALS (ignoring all their fond subtext) and running for State Senate (?!?!). Nikki picking David Chow over Victor?!?! Phyllis as a happy shiny giggler. And so forth.

I don't perceive any of those problems with this regime. I feel the characters are _for the most part_ the characters. More than ever, Nikki is (sadly) behaving like Nikki. Victor has been eviled-up/stupided-up, but I strangely suspect that is to Braeden's liking. A lot of characters are dumber than they used to be...but they're for the most part (IMO) behaving in ways that are consistent with their histories and past behaviors and motivations. The problem with Y&R these days is more about these overlapping evil plots, most of which turn on outside interlopers, and that are motivated in paper-thin ways. That is a different kind of bad.

I think it is enough to say that both are 'bad'. But here is where I take hope. When LML left, a lot of things got cleaned up lickety split. Thus I believe the same can be done here. The "bones" are still good.

I thought the same. With Sabatino back on Days and "I heard her cry", I have been thinking about KL a lot these days.

The brilliance of the Knot's story is that Abby never intended for it to go so far. And that, in the end, Abby is the one who made it better. These two things kept the human emotion in all of this. The problem with Adam is that -- maybe due to actor limitations, maybe due to writing -- we cannot hold on to what is driving him. I'm guessing he hates AND loves the idea of his father, but we never really saw that develop. Now he seems to be remembering his (justifiable) hatred of Nick. But again...by having ignored the emotions of that brother relationship for a year, we don't really feel WITH Adam. And we certainly don't get a sense of his horror at what he has done.

Indeed, when Dr. Taylor accused him yesterday of a cold heart (and kudos to Rubinstein for playing his own horror), Adam didn't seem to falter. I did like the bit where he fell--it reminded us a little of his vulnerability and that no one helps him--but I immediately remembered that he did this to himself. Until we can feel for Adam, and hope he gets away with this stuff....half the emotion of this story will be missing. I'd very much like Adam to SINCERELY fall in love with either Sharon or Ashley (I know I'm the only one)...and want to be a better man. I think some of that is supposed to be the subtext even now (he wanted Ashley to have "her baby"), but it's just not reading clearly enough for me.

I am A#1 in agreement with Maria about the spoilers. First of all, unlike you, I don't dislike the character writing or day-to-day writing. I do NOT like the long-term stories right now (the actual plots), but the writing and characterization and acting is very good in many cases. (And yes, we can list all the duds....Heinle, Luckinbill, sadly Morrow again, Khalil, Erin, etc. etc.). But the stories ("Victor gets the heart of the girl he tormented, and whose death he basically caused"; "Deacon forces Amber into sex") are what is off-putting.

But I think it is rendered even worse that we find out about the heart thing a month in advance. That gives us a FULL MONTH to brace and groan and make it worse.

I believe there should be a 100% total and complete clamp down on spoilers, effective immediately. "Something dramatic happens to Colleen" is as far as it should go. I do believe that would help this siutation.

I was going to disagree, but you are right. The Nick-Sharon scenes were okay for me (though, as Phick lover, they broke my heart). But the Ashley-Victor scenes were so incredibly, incredibly flat. Weird, actually. And that she would "clear his head" with insta-sex was actually disgusting. Even E. Davidson acknowledges the romance was basically "off" from the beginning. Thus, she is happy that it is now explicitly dissolving.

So, you are right. I was late to see it.

Erin...must go. Rubinstein...gold. I will miss him. Case did okay. I'm eager to see what her Phoenix act will be. I do like Billy Miller. I've never once had CarlD2's reaction. But I also agree that we're not seeing a fleshed out characterization. WHY does Mac still love him? Who is Mac these days? Too many characters...too little depth. That is the universal problem.

I wish you wouldn't say "beached whale". I know what you're referring to...but the point (that we agree upon) was the indignity of Nikki screaming "Victor" on that beach. The surrounding scenes where he wished her dead were off the hook...even for TGVN.

It is sad (but sadly true to character, because Nikki is addicted to Victor--she doesn't love him--she craves him and what he makes her--i.e., a "woman of substance"...which makes sense from her incestuous/stripper core) that she would falter and return to him now. But I'm glad she did. She's the only genuine feeling FOR Victor I get these days. For the first time since his debut, TGVN could leave the show...and I seriously wouldn't miss him.

The old Victor could actually be charming. This one is utterly charmless...in dress, mannerism, anything. Back in the day, I understood why Cassandra would have sex with him. Now...I can't imagine it for all the world. (And it's not just age). It's that he's so cliched and redundnant and cold.

I may reverse what I said at the top of this. Victor is a candidate for "most ruined under MAB". Such a shame.

[DeeeDee]

Maitland put on an acting clinic today.

[alphanguy74]

Mark, your post is BRILLIANT. You have a great way of analyzing things that brings everyhting into clear focus. I just got through with today's episode, and it was BRILLIANT. Yesterday was pretty lackluster, so Nelson is correct when he says this show is "uneven". Let me start by saying that Traci's "Talk with God" was one of the most brilliant pieces of work I've ever seen. The dialogue was well done, and the acting... WELL, I'm going to say thie with complete confidence, Beth Maitland is one of the top 3 actresses this show has ever had in it's ENTIRE history. She's THAT good. I loved her going to her "Big brother" to ask him to face Victor because she couldn't, so realistic, and so true to Traci. The scene with Nick and Sharon in the hospital room. WONDERFUL. And you know WHAT, Case was great, Morrow was lackluster in that scene. But it WORKED, and you know why? BACKGROUND MUSIC! HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN since wev'e heard that piece? IT drives home just how brilliant the 70's and 80's background scores were, and how they can in themselves convey emotion, even when an actor falls short. And when an actor is even ADEQUATE, then the same music can ENHANCE the performance, and make it better than adequate. Rauch needs to use these pieces, and use them MORE. The score has been underused for a while now... Y&R has always been a "heavily" scored show, and it WORKS. The cliffhanger was brilliant, and the preview shows Billy breaking down to Kay, natural progression of his anger. Although once again, today the weak links were Hayley Erin and Amelia. I LISTENED to the dialogue Erin was reicting, and it was GOOD, WELL WRITTEN. She just couldn't deliver it in any meaningful way. She's REALLY bad.

[alphanguy74]

This is the truest statement on this entire thread. My mother, who is a totally spoiler free individual, DOES feel emotionally jerked around right now... and thinks the show is "too crazy" in her words, meaning that too much is going on all at once, and it's moving too fast (And that's not my interpretation, that's without a shred of doubt what my mother means when she says that.) I see more fans across the net do this, they read a spoiler, they don't like it... then they ruminate over it like an obsessive-compulsive hand washer OVER AND OVER AND OVER. While, if it was THRUST upon you out of the blue, you'd be pissed for a few days, and then move on. What you said about Adam is spot on. The basic problem, is that when Adam is supposed to be feeling vulnerable or regret, something other than "diabolical" Muhney is NOT conveying it. Engen DID. I guess that's what people mean when they say he's "one note". It's not my purpose to dump on Muhney for jollies.... I appreciate his enthusiasm, I am grateful for him stepping in on short notice because Engen had to act like an ASS. And it's my hope if he reads this (He's a internet ho, so he might) he can work on his performances and improve them. I think he can do it... he just really needs to focus, unless Rauch and the writers and INSTRUCTING him to be this way, but I don't see that.

[DeeeDee]

Not just that.

EVERYTHING is off about Morrow.

His scenes have been flat as hell except when opposite Mel Scott.

He's not a Lead & extremely lazy.

He & Heinle should be embarrassed.

Paris should have been sweeping & epic but it fizzled cause it was so plot dependent when it should've been character based.

Nick/Sharon's reunion was to make Phyllis jealous & Victor/Ashley was hollow cause Maria made Ashley into a generic ingenue who only existed to rescue Victor from himself which was the exact same story he just played with Raya Meddine.

[DeeeDee]

His Adam is Pee Wee Herman to Engen's Wall-E.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

The people running this show like it the way it is righ now, so it's not going to change.

Spoilers have existed in a large scale for like 15 years, and never have I seen such a backlash against one writing regime at Y&R. In some cases, even Latham got a better reaction than this writing regime. How can fans be blamed for the show not being good? They're the ones actually keeping it on the air.

Many of the criticisms leveled at the show are well-argued. Unlike you, many do have problems with the character and day to day writing. Spoilers can cause you to hate something, but they don't cut that deep and in most cases don't impact the specifics of the storytelling. Many who are spoiler-free DON'T enjoy the show right now. I think Toups may be one of them. LOL!

Fanboi!

Agreed, this whole Mary Jane fiasco and now getting the heart of the girl he tormented crap makes him look so bad.

[soapydoc]

Sharon Case was heartbreaking in those scenes. That hurt me to type as I hate the Sharon character.

[alphanguy74]

Yes, Sharon Case has REALLY been doing the work these last few days. She and Rubinstein are the only things giving this SL any SEMBLANCE of credibility.

[alphanguy74]

And that's when this big decline started.... and people for YEARS have been blaming it on the OJ trial. And Latham did NOT get better reception at ANY time. On the sony board, there were literally TWO people who defended her, me being one of them... but when Alden left, I threw LML under the bus so fast it would make your head spin. Cause she messed with the PRODUCTION MODEL. And for me, that is Y&R's sacred cow.