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27 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

That storyline was confused about a lot of things.  Most importantly, did any of those older male characters even live in Springfield during the period the photo was supposedly taken?  Bill Bauer was living in Selby Flats, California during that time. HB Lewis was in Tulsa, and had never even heard of Springfield.  The Spauldings were not originally from Springfield, because I remember when Alan moved there in the late-70s (although this history was changed later and misused many many times).  I suppose the only character for whom this plot was historically accurate was the the Reardon father (don't recall his name) -- because the Reardon's were Springfield natives.  

 

It was a very interesting plot, and well written.  But the show's continuity was totally botched. Nutty.  

 

Good point. I mean, the truth *could* be stretched a bit concerning Bill Bauer, if one chose to adhere to original TGL continuity. Even if we go by the fact that Bill lived in Selby Flats during the time period the fishing trip took place (and Selby Flats was pretty much retconned out altogether once Springfield was the new location for TGL), Bill Bauer did travel occasionally for business, so it isn't out of the question that Bill may have paid to take his clients on a fishing trip in the rural area of Springfield (even if he's technically living in Selby Flats).  But, you're right - I think at that point the plot was written that the Bauers, Chamberlains, and Spauldings were all long-standing residents of Springfield.

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Yeah, IIRC, there was a point during Agnes Nixon's run as HW that GL's locale changed from Selby Flats to Springfield seemingly overnight, with no on-screen explanation provided.

 

Just as annoying (to me, anyway) was how, in the show's final years, there was a "Reverend Ruthledge," who was supposed to be a relative (great-grandson) of the original reverend.  Yet, as far as I could recall, Mary was the original Rev. Ruthledge's only child; and when she married, her name became Mary Holden.

Edited by Khan

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5 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

I think they were confused when Brandon "reappeared" in 1983 via flashbacks for the Eli Simms storyline (which actually ended up killing Bill Bauer in 1983, not Brandon). Brandon had originally died on camera in 1979.

 

There was A LOT of badly-researched "reporting" at that time. 

 

3 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

That storyline was confused about a lot of things.  Most importantly, did any of those older male characters even live in Springfield during the period the photo was supposedly taken?  Bill Bauer was living in Selby Flats, California during that time. HB Lewis was in Tulsa, and had never even heard of Springfield.  The Spauldings were not originally from Springfield, because I remember when Alan moved there in the late-70s (although this history was changed later and misused many many times).  I suppose the only character for whom this plot was historically accurate was the the Reardon father (don't recall his name) -- because the Reardon's were Springfield natives.  

 

It was a very interesting plot, and well written.  But the show's continuity was totally botched. Nutty.  

 

Once Gail Kobe and Pamela Long took over the reigns at TGL, history and continuity were completely butchered. This was egregious and irritating, because throughout the preceding decades, the show had been remarkably consistent and stable in its storytelling.

 

We had watched Brandon Spaulding die ON CAMERA years earlier, so the character could not possibly have still been alive. Bringing him back was stupid. The story that purported all the families' patriarchs were  fishing buddies was also 100% impossible,  and contradicted many years of established, on-air history. (As @zanereed pointed out, only Bill Bauer might have realistically visited Springfield at that time, during one of his business trips.) From this point forward, clueless/incompetent producers and writers made endless mistakes in terms of history and characterization. Amanda suddenly being Alan's sister instead of his daughter-- which was also completely impossible in terms of established history--was one of the most baffling and offensive. Springfield prior to 1983 ceased to exist, more or less. Decades of history were chopped off and TPTB did not care to reattach the severed limb.

 

28 minutes ago, Khan said:

Yeah, IIRC, there was a point during Agnes Nixon's run as HW that GL's locale changed from Selby Flats to Springfield seemingly overnight, with no on-screen explanation provided.

 

Just as annoying (to me, anyway) was how, in the show's final years, there was a "Reverend Ruthledge," who was supposed to be a relative (great-grandson) of the original reverend.  Yet, as far as I could recall, Mary was the original Rev. Ruthledge's only child; and when she married, her name became Mary Holden.

 

That annoyed me too. Josh told the young Rev Ruthledge, "Your grandfather is a legend around these parts." Pffft. The original John Ruthledge never lived in Springfield, so unless he traveled there doing missionary work and performed legendary deeds that continued to be spoken about for decades, Josh's comment could only have been attributed to a lazy script writer who did not bother studying the series' history.

 

And as you say, @Khan, Mary Ruthledge Holden's children would not carry her maiden name, unless we discovered that her husband Ned had died and Mary and her kids had then decided to change their family name back to Ruthledge. But realistically, why would they do that?

 

When viewers know more about the show and its history than TPTB, it is not a good sign.

 

 

 

 

Edited by vetsoapfan

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3 hours ago, Khan said:

Yeah, IIRC, there was a point during Agnes Nixon's run as HW that GL's locale changed from Selby Flats to Springfield seemingly overnight, with no on-screen explanation provided.

 

 

My understanding is (although I wasn't watching at the time), Nixon took out mention of ANY town location from the scripts for at least a year. She just stopped calling it Selby Flats, California in scripts for a year or so, then characters simply started referring to their home as Springfield.  There was no "move" mentioned by any characters.  In fact, the Bauer house didn't even change.  

 

However, some GL fans swear they remember when the characters packed-up and moved from Selby Flats to Springfield on camera.  Bill Bauer had a job transfer and Dr Paul Fletcher was transferred from Cedars Hospital in California to the branch in Springfield.  But if this version is true, the Bauer house still didn't change.  It was the same set. 

 

I'd love to see scripts from that era to see how it really happened.  

Edited by Neil Johnson

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4 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

My understanding is (although I wasn't watching at the time), Nixon took out mention of ANY town location from the scripts for at least a year. She just stopped calling it Selby Flats, California in scripts for a year or so, then characters simply started referring to their home as Springfield.  There was no "move" mentioned by any characters.  In fact, the Bauer house didn't even change.  

 

However, some GL fans swear they remember when the characters packed-up and moved from Selby Flats to Springfield on camera.  Bill Bauer had a job transfer and Dr Paul Fletcher was transferred from Cedars Hospital in California to the branch in Springfield.  But if this version is true, the Bauer house still didn't change.  It was the same set. 

 

I'd love to see scripts from that era to see how it really happened.  

Which begs the question, why did Agnes see the need to move the locale at all?

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5 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Which begs the question, why did Agnes see the need to move the locale at all?

 

I think she was just more comfortable writing a soap in a fictional midwest town.  Maybe she felt the California location was limiting in some way.  Or that the average viewer might have trouble identifying with characters living in California.  I will admit, I find it hard to imagine Bert Bauer and her family living in California.  Bert seemed, to me, the epitome of a midwestern matriarch.  Whatever Nixon's reason, she seemed to have wanted the transition completed before the expansion from 15-minutes to 30-minutes.  

 

Most GL fans forget just how late in the show's history the location change took place.  For instance -- Ed Bauer was already a doctor in Selby Flats.  And Hope Bauer was born in Selby Flats.  

Edited by Neil Johnson

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On 1/28/2020 at 10:04 PM, DeliaIrisFan said:

I have just gotten up to Buzz's debut in 1993 on YouTube.  I had never seen his very first episodes and in some ways I was dreading them even more than Maureen's death.  I did like his character back in the '90s and remember enjoying him with FH's Jenna, but I had heard that his fake accent, etc. made for a bumpy start.

As an avowed Buzz hater..I actually liked him when he first came on as he was supposed to be a cheesy con man who looked like he kind of smelled. I remember a scene of his working at Lewis and he is fake talking on a phone and Van comes in, and quietly goes over and plugs the phone back in..."I think you may hear better now." Then they made him a heart throb, gosh darn it, just a misunderstood guy and he when full on suckage!

 

On 2/1/2020 at 2:24 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Mary Ellen Stuart appears in this partial episode sporting quite a huge helmet of hair! Nobody show Mitch.😂

LOL.. I remember when she was on, wasnt she supposed to be an intern at Spaulding...(with that big ass head of hair!!!)

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8 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

Maybe she felt the California location was limiting in some way.  Or that the average viewer might have trouble identifying with characters living in California.

It really is kind of ironic, cause 1980s and 1990s GL probably could have benefitted from the setting being in California. I mean 2 major multi-national companies chose a random Midwestern city to set up headquarters? Would have been far more logical if it were set in California. 

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1 hour ago, Dan said:

It really is kind of ironic, cause 1980s and 1990s GL probably could have benefitted from the setting being in California. I mean 2 major multi-national companies chose a random Midwestern city to set up headquarters? Would have been far more logical if it were set in California. 

 

Many soap creators decided to set their shows in some random midwestern city, including Y&R (Genoa City, WS), which supposedly has at least 3 Fortune 500 companies, two of which are conglomerates, lol. 

I often wondered why these shows didn't choose a city like Denver, Colorado which is west but closer to Midwest than it is to L.A.  Denver was starting to boom as a city that companies were located and relocating to by the 1980s/90s.

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11 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Many soap creators decided to set their shows in some random midwestern city, including Y&R (Genoa City, WS), which supposedly has at least 3 Fortune 500 companies, two of which are conglomerates, lol. 

I often wondered why these shows didn't choose a city like Denver, Colorado which is west but closer to Midwest than it is to L.A.  Denver was starting to boom as a city that companies were located and relocating to by the 1980s/90s.

 

I remember Harding Lemay complaining in TV Guide about how ATWT (when he was a consultant there) had three characters who had their own private jets. 

 

I guess one of the upsides of the cheap seats GL in those last few years was it felt a little closer to reality again, in some ways. 

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Well when Bill Bell  for eg created Y&R there were no international conglomerates. The wealthy people (the Brooks) were newspaper editor and Chancellor was just a factory - the sort of business you would find in a town that size.

 

The same with the Tylers, Lords and the other wealthy soap families.

 

It wasn't until the Dallas influence trickled to daytime that businesses became mega industries  - another chip in the wall that eventually crumbled and took away the essence of soaps.

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3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Many soap creators decided to set their shows in some random midwestern city, including Y&R (Genoa City, WS), which supposedly has at least 3 Fortune 500 companies, two of which are conglomerates, lol. 

I often wondered why these shows didn't choose a city like Denver, Colorado which is west but closer to Midwest than it is to L.A.  Denver was starting to boom as a city that companies were located and relocating to by the 1980s/90s.

To be honest, it isn't that far-fetched - P&G itself is a midwestern based company. There are many others like it, and I could probably see them wanting that reflected on their shows. Cities like NYC and LA drove away many large corporations that were headquartered in those cities years ago with their taxes, so many ended up settling in the midwest as a result. 

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I recently thumbed through my copy of Worlds Without End and came across an appropriate quote from Carolyn Culliton:

"I'm from the MIdwest, and it used to drive me crazy when cities like Springfield and Bay City, which are in the Midwest, sounded like New York. If you say it's in the Midwest, you must write about the Midwest. I think it is important to understand the customs of the area. You've got to know where Chicago is because everybody in the Midwest knows where it is. Taking cabs and living in lofts are details of New York life that do not belong in a Midwestern setting. I think the audience says, 'That's not true,' and they don't want to watch as much."

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10 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I recently thumbed through my copy of Worlds Without End and came across an appropriate quote from Carolyn Culliton:

"I'm from the MIdwest, and it used to drive me crazy when cities like Springfield and Bay City, which are in the Midwest, sounded like New York. If you say it's in the Midwest, you must write about the Midwest. I think it is important to understand the customs of the area. You've got to know where Chicago is because everybody in the Midwest knows where it is. Taking cabs and living in lofts are details of New York life that do not belong in a Midwestern setting. I think the audience says, 'That's not true,' and they don't want to watch as much."

 

Soaps have had trouble with getting aspects of culture right, we've seen this in other areas like how certain characterizations are made that don't quite ring true.

11 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

To be honest, it isn't that far-fetched - P&G itself is a midwestern based company. There are many others like it, and I could probably see them wanting that reflected on their shows. Cities like NYC and LA drove away many large corporations that were headquartered in those cities years ago with their taxes, so many ended up settling in the midwest as a result. 

 

My quip is not about being against soaps being set in a midwestern location, it is the fact that it is basically a vague setting that is often not imbued with any specificity, which is key to people believing it. That's why I suggested Denver, not L.A.  L.A. makes sense for B&B, but wouldn't make sense for the residents of ATWT, for example. Bill Bell Sr., was a resident of Chicago when he started Y&R, so it makes sense the show is set in a midwestern city but a lot of the aspects have morphed over decades to more closely align with a city on the West Coast (including women in stilettos and off the shoulder or short-sleeved dresses with no coat on, in January and February).  Denver is more of a midwestern city than west coast, it draws big business, has Fortune 500 and 100 companies and is more believable.  Cincinnati, OH (the home of P&G) is much more believable than a city in Wisconsin (sorry Greenbay fans).  I'm not arguing against the midwest, I'm arguing for more accuracy in which midwestern city/town gets picked. 

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12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Well when Bill Bell  for eg created Y&R there were no international conglomerates. The wealthy people (the Brooks) were newspaper editor and Chancellor was just a factory - the sort of business you would find in a town that size.

 

The same with the Tylers, Lords and the other wealthy soap families.

 

It wasn't until the Dallas influence trickled to daytime that businesses became mega industries  - another chip in the wall that eventually crumbled and took away the essence of soaps.

 

That's actually not true.  By the early 1970s, Procter & Gamble was an international conglomerate, whose products were being sold worldwide (according to what I've read about Crest toothpaste, that product was definitely being sold abroad by then) and the P&G headquarters were located in the midwestern city of Cincinnati, OH.

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I remember Harding Lemay complaining in TV Guide about how ATWT (when he was a consultant there) had three characters who had their own private jets. 

 

I guess one of the upsides of the cheap seats GL in those last few years was it felt a little closer to reality again, in some ways. 

 

That's true, in a way. In 2009, the U.S. was still trying to extricate itself from a gaping maw of a recession, so people were definitely (and still do) going through hard times, although much of media did not reflect that.

For as much as I love 1980s American daytime soaps, they often had a bit of a difficult time truly reflecting reality in a consistent manner.

This was the point of my initial post on the topic. You clarified that point in a nutshell, lol.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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