Just now, Kane said:

Raines was the only Alan I ever saw and I thought he was okay, though I never really felt like he sparked with any of the love interests he had during the time that I watched.

LOL, I had the same thought.

29 minutes ago, Kane said:

Raines was the only Alan I ever saw and I thought he was okay, though I never really felt like he sparked with any of the love interests he had during the time that I watched.

The only one I thought had some potential was Mary Kay Adams, but that story didn't go anywhere.

I think @Alan hit the nail on the head: Ron Raines played Alan Spaulding the same way many musical theater performers might - which is to say, very broadly, and big enough for the folks in the back of the house to see.  I know various people have cited moments when Raines toned it down a bit, but I never saw it.  To me, his Alan always seemed to be on the verge of breaking into song.

8 hours ago, Khan said:

I know various people have cited moments when Raines toned it down a bit, but I never saw it.  To me, his Alan always seemed to be on the verge of breaking into song.

Same. He just generally mortified me. At least his (very brief) role as the incoming arch-villain on OLTL 2.0 was meant to be that and nothing else, unlike Alan who had a richer and more complex character that was ultimately winnowed down to, well, Ron Raines playing to the furthest boroughs.

Edited March 25, 20251 yr by Vee

10 hours ago, Kane said:

Brace yourself because 5th Street becomes a whole story in 1996.

Oh no... I'm already tired of the 5th Street obsession, how can it get any worse in 1996?? LOL.  Plus you have Buzz who half the time seems to be adlibbing his lines in a messy web of thoughts that eventually get out of his mouth haha.

I'm at the point where Tangie just got arrested for withholding evidence/information on who may have stolen this money from the Ball.  I mean, we're basically talking about chump change here, and it's this big overhyped scandal IMO.  

Speaking of Tangie, she seems to just be floating around without much direction.  She's a reporter that seems to work around the clock on leads, but then she's also is a bartender at the local dive bar at night.  She seems to have random flirtatious scenes with Alan and Cutter, but it never really goes anywhere.  Speaking of Cutter, there was a random week-long storyline where Mindy has to teach him about computers, and you could tell they were thinking of pairing the two together, but then it got dropped suddenly.

 

10 hours ago, Alan said:

I liked RR's Alan but I was too young to have watched Christopher Bernau's Alan, who I think is the gold standard. Ron Raines interpreted the character very broadly - Raines's musical theatre background is very evident. CB was much more subtle, he could tell a story with one expression. CB was also believable in his love stories, where RR's Alan didn't have any believable romances. RR's Alan wanted to possess women, especially Josh's leftovers, but I never bought that he cared for any of them. As an aside I saw RR as Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd a while ago - I had no idea he would be in the cast when I bought the ticket. He was great!

You are almost where I am in my rewatch. I am a slow watcher so you will probably get way ahead of me soon. 

Oh wow - that's fun that we're almost near the same timeline!  I know, I've been able to power through a lot in the last two weeks because my work schedule this time of year is lighter.  Once work picks back up again, I'll be slower moving.  I also have so much current-day TV that I watch, so I'll have to balance it out here soon.

Thank you all for your thoughts on the Alan character!  I googled Christopher Bernau and learned he was gay and died of a heart attack at 49 due to complications with AIDS (if Wiki is true).  How sad.  I wish I could have seen his work - I'll have to find more clips.  Ron's Alan seems ok for me right now, but like I said, he isn't on much between Feb-May '95, so my limited time with him has been a few banter scenes with Alex, a few scenes with Alan-Michael about how he isn't up to the challenge of running the business, and a few flirtatious scenes with Tangie.  He is just now getting involved in the Sid/Gilly storyline and appears to have gotten Gilly fired from her LA job, which will prevent Sid from moving to LA with her.  But that's very new still...

I actually think RR looks like he could easily play Robert Newman's older brother.  They physically have enough similarities to where I'd buy the relationship.

Edited March 25, 20251 yr by alwaysAMC

16 hours ago, chrisml said:

I never liked Buzz or Deas on the show. Thought he was a waste of time and storyline. I still can't forget that awful accent he did. Granted, I was not watching regularly at that point which was good because I could not have handled his nonsense on a consistent basis. I wish Deas well on his health journey, but as Buzz, I would never have hired him or created the character

I wish Deas well also..but agree with you. Not only was Buzz not needed he sucked airtime from others who were there before him doing similar things..we had Ed as a fallible dad, we have Ross as the "good" dad..Roger/Alan have many more formidable enemies then Buzz, Frank was the Cooper "man" trying to keep his family together (Frank got more and more useless with Buzz there...) We have JFP to thank for making the show "Guiding Buzz" and the soap press and others who proclaimed him daytime's Pacino so we were stuck with him..(I like what Marcy Walker said about his acting parapharising "It can be self-indulgent at times!")

 

11 hours ago, P.J. said:

RR's Alan is just too desperate. Too big a chump when it comes to women. OG Alan only *maybe* cared about Hope and Rita. Maybe Reva. Every other woman was a means to an end. 

I can see Alan finally sick of loosing women, becoming like his father and just using them, but we never saw that with RR's Alan. He acts like he is in LOVE with Annie, and ends up being her dupe, standing around holding her purse while she concocts another evil scheme against Java (yawn..) Alan should have been the one ecouraging Annie's dark side, so he could weaponize her against Jeva with the end result of occupying Josh so that Alan can take over Lewis..(and for shits and giggles cause Jeva 2.0 are so freaking annoying...) But we don't get that, he is butt hurt over the middle aged temptress Reva (okay...) dumping him and then he is over his heels for Annie. Not Alan at all..he should have been using them all for his benefit...(especially with Alex out of the way to stay his hand ..) 

I can't even think about him and Beth...RR/Alan looked like an old perve with her...yucckkk!

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Same. He just generally mortified me. At least his (very brief) role as the incoming arch-villain on OLTL 2.0 was meant to be that and nothing else, unlike Alan who had a richer and more complex character that was ultimately winnowed down to, well, Ron Raines playing to the furthest boroughs.

In a way, RR reminded me of Franklin Cover, a.k.a. Tom Willis on "The Jeffersons," who always acted as if he was on an entirely different show.

May 4, 1995 --- ohhh, Brent is trying to work with Alan now to bring down Alan-Michael, now that Alan-Michael returned from Florida and realized how scummy Brent is!  This is getting good.

Question:  Was Reva popular in the 80s and was her exit/"death" from the show a surprise and sad for fans?  Her "spirit" that is haunting Josh and ruining his chances with Annie seem a little silly only because I know she ends up alive somewhere, so this was probably more of a tease for excited fans at the time when spoilers were not a thing, keeping them on their toes as to what happened with her. She keeps calling him 'Bud' - I guess that's her nickname for him?

Edited March 25, 20251 yr by alwaysAMC

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

May 4, 1995 --- ohhh, Brent is trying to work with Alan now to bring down Alan-Michael, now that Alan-Michael returned from Florida and realized how scummy Brent is!  This is getting good.

Question:  Was Reva popular in the 80s and was her exit/"death" from the show a surprise and sad for fans?  Her "spirit" that is haunting Josh and ruining his chances with Annie seem a little silly only because I know she ends up alive somewhere, so this was probably more of a tease for excited fans at the time when spoilers were not a thing, keeping them on their toes as to what happened with her. She keeps calling him 'Bud' - I guess that's her nickname for him?

More established GL fans could be more helpful, but Kim Zimmer was basically the diva face of GL as much as Susan Lucci was for AMC or Deidre Hall is for DAYS.

2 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Question:  Was Reva popular in the 80s and was her exit/"death" from the show a surprise and sad for fans?  Her "spirit" that is haunting Josh and ruining his chances with Annie seem a little silly only because I know she ends up alive somewhere, so this was probably more of a tease for excited fans at the time when spoilers were not a thing, keeping them on their toes as to what happened with her. She keeps calling him 'Bud' - I guess that's her nickname for him?

Yes, she calls him "Bud" almost all the time, has forever. It is as ubiquitous as is their saying "Always". 

 

I remember people being overjoyed that Kim Zimmer was leaving GL and that she was not missed. I'm sure some people missed her, but I don't think her departure left the same mark as Susan Lucci or Erika Slezak leaving their respective soaps. I was not watching GL when she returned full time, but I recall some people were not happy to see GL returning to the Reva Shayne hour. 

3 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Question:  Was Reva popular in the 80s and was her exit/"death" from the show a surprise and sad for fans?  Her "spirit" that is haunting Josh and ruining his chances with Annie seem a little silly only because I know she ends up alive somewhere, so this was probably more of a tease for excited fans at the time when spoilers were not a thing, keeping them on their toes as to what happened with her. She keeps calling him 'Bud' - I guess that's her nickname for him?

This was intended as a short-term return. Jill Farren Phelps did not want Kim back and the previous year had turned down any return as she felt the show had moved on from Reva. She only did this because she knew her job was in huge danger. After she was fired, Kim was signed up for a permanent return.

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Oh no... I'm already tired of the 5th Street obsession, how can it get any worse in 1996?? LOL.  Plus you have Buzz who half the time seems to be adlibbing his lines in a messy web of thoughts that eventually get out of his mouth haha.

I'm at the point where Tangie just got arrested for withholding evidence/information on who may have stolen this money from the Ball.  I mean, we're basically talking about chump change here, and it's this big overhyped scandal IMO.  

Speaking of Tangie, she seems to just be floating around without much direction.  She's a reporter that seems to work around the clock on leads, but then she's also is a bartender at the local dive bar at night.  She seems to have random flirtatious scenes with Alan and Cutter, but it never really goes anywhere.  Speaking of Cutter, there was a random week-long storyline where Mindy has to teach him about computers, and you could tell they were thinking of pairing the two together, but then it got dropped suddenly.

Barbara Crampton had announced her exit around this time, as did Marcy Walker, so both pairings (which had their share of fans) never went anywhere. In 1994 JFP was asked in SOD about a Tangie/Cutter pairing, and she made it clear she wasn't interested. She had clearly expected Marcy to click with some of her bigger names, not a supporting player cop. Everything you're seeing with Tangie is Marcy just working out the rest of her contract. She felt used by JFP, as there was no real story in place for Tangie and she was only brought in because Marcy had been a star on Santa Barbara (also produced by JFP).

I don't know if you watched the episode with Buzz on a roof yelling about Fifth Street, but that was JFP's attempt at staving off cancelation rumors. She thought a big Emmy showcase for Deas would do it. 

 

11 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I remember people being overjoyed that Kim Zimmer was leaving GL and that she was not missed. I'm sure some people missed her, but I don't think her departure left the same mark as Susan Lucci or Erika Slezak leaving their respective soaps. I was not watching GL when she returned full time, but I recall some people were not happy to see GL returning to the Reva Shayne hour. 

They never left their soaps, so we will never know, but Susan was on AMC from the start and Erika only a few years into the show's run. Kim wasn't on GL for 30 years (not even counting radio). I do think Kim was popular, but JFP wasn't wrong that the show had moved on. The problem is that thanks in large part to JFP's actions, the show was hollowed out by 1995, so that argument didn't really work anymore. You can't say there's no room for Kim when you made devastating changes to the show to make room for your BFFs.

I think that Reva/GL is an example where there is a fan complaint that she "ate" her show. You would not find that complaint about Slezak/OLTL, Lucci/AMC or Deidre/DAYS. Of course, she didn't just have detractors; she also had fans. I'm not one of them but I'm also not a big hater, either. I do hold at least 2 GL opinions that are unpopular, here, so I'm in the minority, here. I like 2 Coopers: Harley & Buzz. I'm sure part of the reason for that is that I came late to loving GL. So they were never the new interlopers to me. A friend & I were discussing KZ just the other day. He's not a cheerleader for her or anything but he did say one strong complimentary thing, that KZ personally had the conviction as an actress to make any scene work as well as she could.

12 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

They never left their soaps, so we will never know, but Susan was on AMC from the start and Erika only a few years into the show's run. Kim wasn't on GL for 30 years (not even counting radio). I do think Kim was popular, but JFP wasn't wrong that the show had moved on. The problem is that thanks in large part to JFP's actions, the show was hollowed out by 1995, so that argument didn't really work anymore. You can't say there's no room for Kim when you made devastating changes to the show to make room for your BFFs.

I agree. Good point about Zimmer's tenure on the show. I like Kim Zimmer so I'm not anti-Reva, but I don't think the show needed Reva by the time she left.  As you say, JFP set about destroying the show and doing anything she could to save her job once her decisions did not go over well. When JFP brought back Zimmer, it felt as if she were punishing Zimmer for being forced to use her to get the ratings back up. Always feels like that JFP hates women. 

Ahh that is all very interesting.  I didn't realize JFP produced SB beforehand and that's how she knew Marcy and brought her into GL.  I just saw that JFP left GL in late May '95, which I'm getting close to.  Now, with a new EP in June and a new head writer (McT) in July, it makes me curious where some of these stories that started in early '95 were intended to go, and what the new folks changed.  Like Brent clearly was a rapist, but I'm guessing McT thought of the Marion story.. was Beaty on contract from the beginning of his time?  I wonder what the old EP/writer had intended for Brent Lawrence.

Or is there a period of overlap when things like this happen... like clearly Josh/Annie were meant to be a thing, and it started nicely, but if an abrupt decision to bring Reva back was made, then that clearly changed that story arc.  The only real meaty storylines happening right now are Brent/Lucy/AM, Reva's return, and Dinah's return and impact on Ross/Blake.  The Holly/Fletcher/Roger storyline, 5th Street/Cooper stuff, Vanessa/Matt engagement, and anything else going on is all just easy filler to watch that goes along, but there isn't much meat behind it.

I feel like since I started in February '95, I'm seeing the wind down of relationships and storylines - with Nick/Mindy over, Gilly/Sid moving (or so it seems), Eve going away (I saw she passes away soon 😰), Eleni's Greece story resolved and now bland with the new actress, what you mention with Mindy leaving, Tangie leaving, Cutter leaving...  

I haven't spoiled myself yet on how Mindy goes, but if the actress was wanting to leave, I could see her being a victim of Brent's!  He just tried to seduce her at his apartment before she mentioned Lucy's concerns to her, which pissed him off and he asked her to leave... so he could go find Lucy in the thunderstorm and threaten her (which was such a great Friday cliffhanger)!