Oh, I'm sure Patty Jane's criminal history will be whitewashed as much as Kevin's after she either cries and says she sorry for 5 minutes or get laid by Jack or something...

You don't have to white wash anything. Why can't it be like Phyllis who was allowed to be a bitch for YEARS despite her continuing crimes? She actually killed a woman! As long as there is no proof, Mary Jane should be a free woman and thats how a smart writer would play it. Back off on the crazy and you can keep her on the canvas since there is no proof.

Their bad writing is sabotaging their own story because they've clearly forgotten there is no evidence against her.

There's no gray characters on this show anymore. You're either a one note villain, a sleaze, or you've been totally stripped of anything resembling a personality.

As long as there is no proof, Mary Jane should be a free woman and thats how a smart writer would play it.

That's what LML tried to do with Gloria and the audience complained until she got her comeuppance. There are even some who still think Phyllis should pay for her crimes (mainly crazed Shick fans from the CBS board, but still). And the things MJ has done were much worse than what Gloria or Phyllis did. In fact, MJ is less redeemable than Sheila, IMO.

Edited August 28, 200916 yr by y&r_fan

That's what LML tried to do with Gloria and the audience complained until she got her comeuppance. There are even some who still think Phyllis should pay for her crimes (mainly crazed Shick fans from the CBS board, but still). And the things MJ has done were much worse than what Gloria or Phyllis did. In fact, MJ is less redeemable than Sheila, IMO.

What is considered redeemable on Y&R has changed drastically over the past five or six years. This started with Kevin (as he never seriously paid for anything -- even Phyllis lost custody of Daniel) and has only accelerated.

The big problem is Y&R no longer has a moral code. They don't seem to care about right or wrong. To them, wrong is meaningless stunts, shock value, gimmicks. It's not a big deal. We're supposed to be thrilled. Adam terrorizing Ashley is hot stuff.

Poor Jill. Jess Walton doesn't deserve to be treated the way the amateurs treat her.

I agree, but TIIC can try and sell it all they want, but I know Jill is capable of better and I do NOT buy it, so therefore they haven't sold it to me.

How long is this Ashley/Adam thing suppose to last?

apparently Adam's lies are going to be revealed.

There is a God.

The big problem is Y&R no longer has a moral code. They don't seem to care about right or wrong. To them, wrong is meaningless stunts, shock value, gimmicks. It's not a big deal. We're supposed to be thrilled. Adam terrorizing Ashley is hot stuff

I so agree, Ashley was so strong too when she took over Jabot' I am really hoping she has a breakthrough and reverts back to that. I know with the way it seems it may not be, but I can still hope, or dream.

There's no gray characters on this show anymore. You're either a one note villain, a sleaze, or you've been totally stripped of anything resembling a personality.

MMMM HMMMMM. That sucks the big one too cuz I think most of us relish the gray characters. They're infinitely more interesting than the plain-jane vanilla "good girls" or "heroes", aren't they? I was hoping - HOPING - that Adam would turn out more like Alan-Michael (Curlee's RH version). His Bauer/Spaulding sides were always explored - the exact same thing could have been done with Adam as he's Victor's son, but has some of Hope's softer side.

Victoria should have ALOT more shades of gray. But we won't get into that.

One last thing - as much as I loathe Jill Lorie Hurst (GL), she did fairly well with one of that show's most notorious gray characters - Dinah Marler. JLH never tried to turn her into a goody-two shoes, and the character went out in typical "Dinah" fashion. I don't think MAB's writing regime could handle a character like Dinah.

I wonder why I watched today's show. Gloria in a nuns outfit. Patty all of sudden being more wacko than usual. So yeah...she goes to the funny farm and then all is forgiven...I guess the same thing will happen to Adam.

So, I'll swim against the tide and say I _liked_ Thursday's US show. Was it flawed? Absolutely.

What the show succeeded in doing, more than some, is bringing disparate characters and story groups into a common umbrella.

As examples: (1) The church ultimately brought Paul, Heather, Patty, Chance, Jeff, Gloria, Jack, and Jill into a common frame; (2) Moreover, Chloe (who--thank God!--has rediscovered her mojo and her manipulative ways) drew herself into it (with Esther) by leaving Chance a manipulative message during the crisis; (3) Mac has also been tangentially connected to the Patty tale (and she even talked to Jack!), and of course she ties to Chloe; (4) Even the LAME cancer story (could Christel PLEASE leave off her false eyelashes for one day???? Let us see real pain, not petulance!) tied into the umbrella, as Lily referenced the past year and the Chloe-Billy incursion into their lives.

I'm not making any great claims that this is deep, repaired...I'm just saying that the show felt more like a *show* yesterday, with various spokes coming off a common hub.

Many of you have noted that the acting among the Williams (and I'd even say, to some extend, Vail...who played her mix of discomfort and compassion fairly well) really buoyed the show. I also have to hope that we're on the path to freeing Jeff-Gloria-Jill from their respective desperate situations...and so maybe that part of the canvas will get back to some more dignity and depth.

I also believe that the Jack-Mary Jane scenes will rock.

I agree that Patty's insta-insanity is jarring...but I don't think it is "insta". She has been increasingly delusional these past weeks (and we were shown that she always was--from the first day they showed us Kitty). It makes sense that the trauma of recent events would push her further in that direction.

I also happen to believe that this church standoff is an interesting and different thing for Y&R--especially with Paul finally being so fierce--and that it is all a device to bring Patty/Sharon/Ashley into a common "fricking funny farm" context.

Lastly...I secretly hope that Jack and Patty can actually emerge "out of these ashes" and have a mature, healthy relationship down the road. With Phyllis threatened-as-all-get-out by this .

Hmmmm. I haven't watched yesterday's episode yet, but now Mark has piqued my curiosity....

I watched part of today's Y&R for the first time in forever. "Flower kitty." So funny. Why is Gloria in the church? Strange.

Whoa!! Michelle and Tracy sharing a scene together?

Have the clouds parted and God shed is light and mercy on us?

Lastly...I secretly hope that Jack and Patty can actually emerge "out of these ashes" and have a mature, healthy relationship down the road. With Phyllis threatened-as-all-get-out by this .

I have no desire in watching Jack form a relationship with the woman who raped him, regardless of how he might have treated Patty Jane nearly 30 years ago.

The Patty character needs serious work, and they've done all they can to damage her and make her pretty irredeemable in such a short period of time. Not many are going to welcome her insta sanity, should they go in that direction with her, with open arms.

ALL of the storylines on this show right now are deeply problematic, I can't honestly say there's one that gives me hope. Also, knowing full well how botched the execution and development is on this show with this writing regime, I'm not optimistic.

What is considered redeemable on Y&R has changed drastically over the past five or six years. This started with Kevin (as he never seriously paid for anything -- even Phyllis lost custody of Daniel) and has only accelerated.

The big problem is Y&R no longer has a moral code. They don't seem to care about right or wrong. To them, wrong is meaningless stunts, shock value, gimmicks. It's not a big deal. We're supposed to be thrilled. Adam terrorizing Ashley is hot stuff.

I look at the morality issue as simply TPTB being so taken by the flawed characters they create (mainly according to the audience's reaction to them), they can't let them go. This causes the overarching plans for the s/ls to be ruined and we're all left scratching our heads asking why the hell is an online predator running a coffee shop.

The Patty Jane stuff gets stupider on Monday's US episode folks. Gloria and Jeffrey get more heavily into the mix, and most of it is played up for their stupid schemes and for laughs and camp.

Seriously, I don't know why MAB and her band of hacks think Gloria and Jeffrey are so vital to this show. What the hell is their purpose here? It certainly isn't this comedic relief MAB sees, as Gloria and Jeffrey do the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN and their schemes go nowhere.

Edited August 28, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Why is Gloria in the church?

And why isn't her skin burning?

I look at the morality issue as simply TPTB being so taken by the flawed characters they create (mainly according to the audience's reaction to them), they can't let them go. This causes the overarching plans for the s/ls to be ruined and we're all left scratching our heads asking why the hell is an online predator running a coffee shop.

I thought it had more with tptb thinking that the actor that portrays this character is too good to let go.

Did anyone fear for nuKitty's life when MaryJane was with Jack?

Edited August 28, 200916 yr by lovely_m