Y&R: Episodes Discussion for the week June 22

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Everyone is speculating that mixed in with that blood was tissue and fluid from Ashley's fetus, and there was no indication he did anything to her or her fetus after he changed her clothing.

[classicmoment]

I don't necessarily know if Chloe would want Billy to change if Delia wasn't involved mybe I'm turning a blind eye to that aspect of the character. To me that tells me this drive is more about Delia from Chloe's perspective. Don't get me wrong I know Chloe is selfish and manipulative but minus Delia I don't know if I have a full sense of the character trying to change Billy in this way. Maybe she;d still embrace his "partyboy" ways.

I think we are proving each other's point because I agree to an extent, but my point is obviously Chloe wants more from Billy. I don't necessarily believe that it is about the character wanting him to change in the sense of losing himself (not that you said it was) a part of her wants him to grow for Delias sake and the selfish manipulative part of her wants him to show her sides of himself that she sees only with Mac or have seen only with Lily. I think Billy is already these things that she wants him to be and I think the character (Chloe) sees it that way as well, how-ever he doesn't show her that side of him and it hurts her because she's so infatuated with him. But to me because he already has a bit of what Chloe wants about him I don't see it as her trying to change him. She wants to change the way he looks at her or his feelings for her yes.

I agree

[DeeeDee]

She would.

Chloe wants what she can't have.

She did the same thing with Cane.

You are.

The problem with Chloe is she wants all of Billy but Billy doesn't want all of her.

Chloe told Billy that she & Delia were a package deal & can't deal with the fact that Billy won't change into a Perfect Prince Charming.

She wouldn't.

Chloe is too headstrong for that.

Chloe herself has said she loves Billy but she doesn't always like him.

That's the entire gist of their relationship.

Not really.

Chloe wants to play house.

Chloe doesn't get Mackenzie & Lily cause she doesn't want to deal with the fact that Cane is Cane & Billy is Billy.

Her infatuation is her problem.

One of the main reasons Billy loves Mackenzie is because she DOESN'T try to change him.

She can't deal with Billy beyond her projection of her issues onto him.

Chloe needs to be with someone who will be what she needs instead of what she wants.

[Cheap21]

Am I the only one who's now loving CF as Mac? Must be the hair, bc not only does she look great, but it feels as if she's settled into the role. I dont want to, but I found myself liking her and Billy together. He needs to tone down the sleaze factor though

[rhythmchyc]

OMG I felt the same way, yesterday especially. He's stalkerish and just like Nick and Sharon, these two who I once adored are now hollow, Billy and Mac don't deserve each other anymore.

I am enjoying Ford a bit more but she's not presented well because Billy gets all the juicy in-depth character detail. So they're not Billy and Mac they're Billy and Billy's fantasy that TPTB will use as a platform for Miller's talents.

[Cheap21]

He comes across as if she's a challenge and all he wants to do is sleep with her but once he does that he will drop her. I dont see any genuine feelings on his part and he's such a slut. Im seeing some chemistry but she does deserve better

[rhythmchyc]

It sucks that Raul had to be sucked into this and Mac's integrity has been somewhat compromised for no reason but to make her and Billy work for Billy's benefit and as a crux in Chloe's side. This is another s/l on Y&R that has fantastic elements but inadequate storytelling.

Again, Mac should've been commiserating with Kevin or JT and Katherine about her life in Darfur over the last few months so that she'd be properly set-up. But clearly that was never intended. I don't know why these writers with loads more experience than I do don't see all these pacing issues as a serious problem in their storytelling.

I hope, as brimike posited earlier in this thread, that they've figured out how to properly pace everything by now and we'll see the outcome of their fine-tuning by the end of the year.

I have hope.

And I miss Neil.

[Sylph]

Muhney sucks.

[Greg's GL]

I think MM started out fine as Adam. IMO, a definite improvement over CE. The scene on Friday when Adam held Rafe's face and touched his lips was kinda creepy and sexy at the same time. I can't see CE pulling that off. I was worried that MM wouldn't have chemistry with VB/Heather, but there was something there.

IA with Julia (I can't get the quote to work with this new "improved" forum) that I believe Mary Jane is so far gone that she was thinking the peanut butter thing would help bring Summer's parents together. And not out of spite to kill Summer. I don't believe that was her intent at all.

That being said, the show overall is feeling a little off-track to me. For the most part, I still enjoy watching it and and the stories. It's good to see an attempt at getting the problems with the show into another thread so we can discuss the episodes here. I don't know how long that will last, but it's very difficult to try to post in a show discussion thread with the "know-it-alls" bashing everything about the show. I hope it lasts. That almost caused me to leave the forum altogether.

[cara mia]

Anything on a soap can be retconned. Maybe Victor isn't really Victor but David Chow after extensive plastic surgery and the real Victor is buried in the barn. See? Writers can make up any crap they want and retcon a soap any which way they want. Which is part of the reason so many of us are HATING our soaps right now. The worst offense at the moment is the crap on GH were Luke has been retconned into an adulterous skank whore who cheated on Laura just so Tony Geary can have a "son" he's sexually attracted to.

Unless the show demonstrates otherwise, from what we saw -- Adam burned all the evidence: the clothes, the fluid, and yes, the fetus. Why do we know the fetus was included for sure? Eileen Davidson said Ashley is not carrying a dead baby inside of her and Dr. Taylor apparently has no concern for Ashley's health being comprised by a dead fetus inside of her. Maybe we'll get a flashback where Adam buried the child, hired a priest and gave it a funeral mass but I am not holding my breath.

[Sylph]

Muhney sucks.

The eagerness, the enthusiasm of having been given the role is sooo visible. Of course it's great when an actor loves to play a certain character, but somehow this particular enthusiasm, for me, transcends a certain line, where it distracts me from the task at hand (playing Adam). So I honestly hope this is a fake Adam so that they can kill him off in November and bring someone who doesn't suck like Muhney.

And I saw 0 sexual tension in the scene with Rafe. 0.

[Greg's GL]

Let's play devil's advocate here. All miscarriages are not the same, are they? Isn't it possible that the blood and fluid that was on Ashley's clothes and the towels all there was to the embryo? Is a fetus necessarily expelled during the miscarriage EVERYTIME? Or is it possible that the embryo - whatever was left of it - was absorbed into her body? That's a possibility.

On Friday's show, Adam was expressing regret that Ashley was the one suffering the most because of his actions (although in the end, Victor is his target). We saw that confession when he was sitting on his bed. I would have a hard time believing that Adam burned the fetus on purpose. We did see him burn the bloody clothes/towels. But there was no indication from him that there was something else to burn.

[Sylph]

That monologue was atrocious.

[cara mia]

Where is the fetus is he didn't burn it? I know people want to gloss over this but I don't see how one can.

Sylph, on a show with Clementine Ford, Eva Marcille, Tammin Sursok, etc, I would never say that MM sucks. I mean, let's get real about the relatively shallow talent pool of the under-35s on Y&R. MM is not my ideal for Adam but he's clearly talented. I do am not warm to what you call his eager playing of the role BUT I believe he is being directed this way and he was hired PRECISELY because this what MAB wants. He is playing the role as written -- more mentally unhinged, less morally depraved -- and there's a lightness to his finished product. It even made me a chuckle a few times. This is how MAB sees Adam, a character were supposed to laugh at and be shocked by. Not one were supposed to care about. Then again, I don't think MAB thinks we're supposed to care about ANY of the characters. What she's done to Victoria, Nick, Sharon, Jack, etc. is a travesty.

[alphanguy74]

I so agree with your post. And please don't leave... just keep talkin, we need you here. I don't think Patty Jane intended to Kill Summer, either. I'm sure if she intended tha,t she would have FED the child peanuts, and not just kissed her. She proabably thought the kiss would just make her "sick" but nothing life threatening. We'll see if Patty Jane shows any remorse once she finds out how serious Summer's condition is. I think me might know on Monday's eppy. I think Muhney is doing fine... but even if he wasn't, I think pretty tacky to say an actor "sucks" after only 2 episodes... actors need to be given a fighting chance. Saying you don't like the first impression... FINE. But please.