What's up now?

My comment about RE: Neil!

Ah, gotcha.

Most of us have the same reaction to his storylines.

This is from waay back in the thread, so I apologize if anyone doesn't like the rehash, but hell yes to JT and Heather, they'd bring sexy back to the much needed Luckinbill and his storyline!

There's one thing that I'm not liking about the character of Adam much anymore, he seemed to stray from his humble roots and Hope wouldn't approve this side of him. But I think 'cara mia' nailed CE's interpretation of Adam as the snotty know-it-all mathlete who rolls his eyes at the frat boy he has to tutor. I also agree with your assessment of how JM interprets Nick, but that is IT! The kind of guy I always loved to hate, I like the more intellectuals myself.

There is a heavy need for more discussions between the characters so that the audience doesn't have to guess for ourselves, with what the writers are NOT telling us.

I like the idea of P3 not handling his feelings with his sexual preference because it is very indicative of real life and the not knowing how society (family, friends and everyone in general) will handle your situation, therefore, the story of Phillip III is very plausible with him living in denial for a long while and not being able to handle all of the pressure that he placed on himself. Although, I certainly wouldn't make Cane an Abbott; one Aussie Abbott is enough. Can we at least enjoy being hopeful at the prospect of Cane scurrying back to Oz? Although, there seems to have been some subtle foreshadowing (that MAB is often very subtle with), so it'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out. And whether or not Jill will be able to live up to her statement she said just weeks ago.

Edited May 16, 200916 yr by Heyou

They can just pin the Delia paternity test thing on Chole for all I care. Chole could've reached a compromise with the DNA lab where they reported that Cane wasn't out of the realm of possibility for being Delia's father.

Why would she do that though? She had no reason to think that Cane and Billy, whom she believes to be brothers, wouldn't have similar DNA. That's the whole reason she picked Cane to begin with.

No, I prefer Engen. Engen looks like a handsome, cornfed midwestern boy. "All-American", as they used to say. That under such a bland and unthreatening exterior should lurk a monster is far more...discomfiting.

Casthon, how could you! LOL! Engen was born to play Adam Wilson. It's all perfect with him -- he looks/acts/freaking sounds like a Kansan, looks like a cross between Victor & Hope, is totally believable as someone who got into & excelled at Harvard, has chemistry with everyone, and always brings it. I also think that Engen is doing something brave & fresh with his performance. He's playing Adam as exhilarated by his actions and that's extremely disturbing, which in turn is awesome for us as viewers. So many other actors would choose to show the "hurt sweet boy" underneath who feels all guilty. CE saves his moments of guilt and uses them very sparingly. They're there but there fleeting and he quickly suppresses them. Instead, he showcases the sadist within and that choice makes all the difference. It creates real suspense in the story. How far will he go? Is anything off-limits?

Adam's real motivation is clear as day. Victor and Jack emasculated him, and Adam cannot take that. He will risk his freedom, his sight, and even his life before he gives over his "manhood" to Jack and Victor. All the other men on the show can tolerate being Victor or Jack's bitches. For example, Paul this whole past year, choosing Victor over Heather in the Palin case, and now biting his tongue when Nikki traipses off to to the mansion to let Victor know about the engagement. JT, Michael and Neil (until recently) are Victor's yes-men. IMO, Adam's need to hurt Jack and Victor is unquenchable and insatiable. He'll use Ashley for now. If he's not caught soon, he'll turn on other members of Victor or Jack's families. Basically anyone and everyone he has the ability to strike at. Creating hurt for Jack or Victor is how Adam is able to reclaim in his manhood. That's why Adam is sexing up Heather all the time now -- it's not an accident that it coincides with Adam's plans beginning to yield fruit. And I don't think Heather is just some dumb blonde being hoodwinked by Adam. She pursued him and the only way she can see him if she goes to him. IMO, deep down Heather knows exactly what kind of man Adam is. She even voiced regret that she didn't run away with him and has done risky things like confront Victor while half-dressed. It's not the corn-fed country boy she's hot for, it's the bastard within. Matt Weiner (former Sopranos scribe and creator/HW of the sublime Mad Men) once said that "Women love men because they kill things." I don't know if that's a universal truth but I think MW is on to something, at least for some women. Maybe it's a primal thing, going back to the time when women needed men to go and hunt down dinner. LOL! Who knows. Women like Nikki, Ashley and Heather gravitate towards men with killer instinct for a reason.

Threatened masculinity is why men go to war and has been since the dawn of time. Sometimes it's called "honor" but it's really about manhood. The root of Victor & Jack's feud is the same thing. Victor made Jack feel like less than a man and the war has been on ever since. Jack won't be Victor's bitch (even if it means that Jack always loses everything he loves) and Adam won't be Jack's (even if it costs him his life). That's dedication. I just hope it sure doesn't come to that cause Adam is amazingly entertaining.

cara mia, awesome post. You have nailed why I have come to love Adam's new story. I hope that Sheffer and MAB share our appreciation for Adam and the motivation of his revenge. They have to do a better job with the nuts and bolts of the story.

Another thing I was wondering...why is Adam always fully dressed if he's just staying at the ranch? This reminds me of what Sharon Case said about wanting more casual nudity on soaps. I don't think his wardrobe is representative of his lifestyle at all. I want to see some skin, but regardless, he is too dressed to be comfortable in his cell. I'd like to see more characters in the nightgowns, guys with their shirts off, etc., but not in silly places. Since most Y&R characters have a home it's very possible to do.

My favorite example of this is when Adam first came on the show. He tells Victor he's going out to the movies and he's wearing a sport coat. Because, you know, that's what Kansas farmboys do.

Honestly, I would HATE for Phillip III to be gay. I haven't been posting much because I haven't watched Thursday or Friday yet, but I've still been keeping up with the thread. IMO, that would be a bad more for the story and the future of gay actors in general. Here we FINALLY have an openly gay male, which is much more controversial than an openly gay female, and you make him gay? How predictable . That certainly isn't going to help any of the gay leading men come out of the closet. Let Thom return and put him at the center of a freaking love triangle! Show that a gay man CAN be a straight leading man, regardless of his orientation. Not only that, but the character's history is too huge with Nina, Christine and potentially Phyllis, Victoria, etc. to throw that away. Phillip (if truly alive) should be a long term character at the center of things. Making him gay will limit his storylines and love interests and has NOTHING to do with the character history. It would be another thing tacked onto an already packed story. His return to Genoa City is like two years worth of story and should be the main focus. Throwing in the gay element will a distraction and jump the shark moment.

I TOTALLY disgree with this. The character of Phillip as written years ago was painfully shy, introspective... and always seemed to be "struggling" with something. It makes perfect sense. And as far as gay actors playing gay characters... I don't think it is a problem for actors everywhere. Thom said in the past that a gay character would be the only thing he'd consider playing, otherwise, he would not even atempt a return to acting. He just "pretended" for so long about that, that he didn't want to do that any more, even if it was for an onscreen part. Gay actors have already proven that they can play striaght... just on Y&R, Terry Lester, Michael Corbett, Christian Leblanc. And elsewhere, Chad Allen, Neil Patrick Harris, etc.. getting around that death scene is the biggest worry here, not the gay thing.

If they have Thom Bierdz back, he should be playing Phillip III, and no one else. What's the use? At this point, I can look past his resurrection, given that the whole Cane situation Latham created made no sense in the first place. I'd rather a resurrected Phillip III be the real Phillip III than Cane or someone else. They could've fixed it without resurrecting him, but oh well, I guess this will do for now, as long as there aren't too many holes in this.

This seems vaguely to me like you are softening your initial stance....

So what if Cane is Phillip's lover?? ohmy.gif It just popped in my head. laugh.gif

Goddard would NEVER ALLOW IT. Off-camera, a race car driver who dabbles in carpentry and who doesn't like birth videos because they interfere with his enjoyment of the vagina (seriously...he's said all this in interviews)...he's NEVER going there. I wouldn't believe him for an instant. THE ONLY REASON to do that is to watch Goddard CRINGE with TORTURE.

Your points are stunning. The baby-switch storyline really makes this whole thing dicey. Did Kay not switch the babies and dream it (oh dear!). I agree with whomever said it would be easy to expose Cane as a fraud but very hard to resurrect him. Yet i also agree that if TB is returning, then he should play P3. Gosh - I guess i owe Jillian Bowean apology - she said something roof-ripping would happen May sweeps and homegirl was not lying.

Kay's memories of the switch were NEVER clear. They were so vague, she needed that psychic. I honestly believe there was some "suggestion" and even "drugging" going on here...although it is not clear to me how that would have been accomplished.

Honestly? I'd go with that. That whole "storyline" made even less sense than Kay-is-Jill's-mother. Kay was just drunk and hallucinating? Fine with me. It's not like I ever trusted that phony, Sylvia Browne, on "Montel" anyway.

Agreed.

I said that a while back that they are lovers. I would love to see a love scene with them. & I want to hear Cane call Philip 3rd uncle during a sexual moment. I bet it's hotter then anything Cane did with CkLily.

I may just have had a stroke.

Well, I only said that because there are so many gay rumors about a couple..or etc..etc..is gay..yadda..yadda..lol....so what if Cane is Phillips gay lover??

I started to wonder about this. What if Rafe is a red herring? What if Alvin is right, and they never intended to tell Rafe's story? What if the real "gay story" is Phillip's? That would be VERY clever subterfuge.

Isn't funny how CE dances circles around AH and JM? They probably don't show him with his siblings because he totally outshines them.

Actually, I loved that scene where Nick kind of "tortured" Adam with the contents of that delivered box. It actually made me root for Adam a little more. Nick was such an *sshole.

Unless JW or JC have a specific line about loving Cane, they never seemed to really love him. Even as Kay gave Cane that huge wedding gift, she still seemed to be saying, well your father would have wanted you to have this money. i don't know if it's guilt or just plain weirdness, but they never seemed to close to be him.

Interesting insight. I CANNOT BELIEVE that Kay is forgiving Cane about his attitude toward her when she was coming back from the dead. But Kay forgave Nikki for the same.

It makes me think that maybe the reason Cane was so belligerent, believing her to be an imposter, is because he is an imposter. As a con, he suspects everyone else of being a con.

Here we FINALLY have an openly gay male, which is much more controversial than an openly gay female, and you make him gay? How predictable. [...] Let Thom return and put him at the center of a freaking love triangle! Show that a gay man CAN be a straight leading man, regardless of his orientation.

Excellent point, Chris B! However, on the flip side, if an openly gay actor were to portray someone who enjoys exclusively heterosexual relationships, I guarantee plenty of us would be here, on the boards, talking about how "unconvincing" he is in his love scenes w/ women. As brimike would say, I'm not saying I disagree with you, Chris; but you must admit, the potential for backlash, for lack of a better word, is there.

Ah, well. I just hope TB's acting has improved since he was last on the show

I always feel the need to defend JM for some reason, I love the fact that he is not some wanna be "Grand Thespian". He brings an everyday guy to spoiled rich kid Nick. Of course fratboy is indeed a part of that.

So, I actually think Morrow was initially miscast as Nick. The product of a Swiss boarding school education, he should have been much more refined, and much less fratboy. That said, given that Morrow is Nick...I love his understated, natural performance.

I wish Nina would go looking for her first born son. That story is just waiting to be revisited.

Funny. "Who did Brad meet with in a diner all those years ago?" "What about Cane's 'I'm in' scene. Many people believe these should never have been revisited. (I disagree).

Your example is even more hazy-distant. But if Nina is back, then I do want it revisited. I also want to know what is in Terrible Tom's safe deposit box.

How about Rafe is Nina's son?

Then her two sons could fall in love and discover they are siblings!!!

I'm going to ignore the second part, though it is a beautiful twist on a soapy cliche. I know you were being facetious. But the first part is...intriguing. Some people used to want Raul to be Nina's son, too.

I can't give up on Neil so easy! I enjoyed him during the 90s and even during Dru's hiatus.

I was ready to get rid of him. But I have had a change of heart. He still needs much better story, but I think he can be saved. We need to sympathize for him. The way to do that, IMO, is to "victimize" him...make him the victim of evil Tyra.

I can see Kristoff having great chemistry with Tricia Cast

That would be funny, since KSJ and TC co-starred in the "Bad News Bears" tv series.

They seem to focus on one or two things at a time and everything takes a backseat to that.

Typical Hogan Sheffer, if you ask me.

I just rewatched that "first the father, not the son scene". First of all...goosebumps.

But how about this?

We didn't hear the flatline monitor. Okay, so that gives us a loophole.

More importantly, what if Kay (maybe angry or guilty) arranged to have the body "spirited away" and repaired (she'd have the resources)--much as Stephanie Forrester did with Felicia Forrester on B&B...a "whole-insides-transplant" to get rid of all the cancer that had ravaged her.

What if Kay--in the trauma of all that--FORGOT. Now, bear with me.

Years later, when she had the misty memories that Syvlia Browne helped her with (even I gag at that!), she was CONFUSING her infant-offer to buy Phillip with the "spiriting away" she did after Phillip's death. Indeed, for all we know, the grande dame already had Lyme Disease at that point?

My point is, the memories were always vague. It is likely that when Kay remembered taking away Jill's son, she THOUGHT it was in infancy...but it was really after the accident.

Now--here is where it all connects.

P3 WANTED to remain dead. So, when he found out (somehow) about this "Violet" nonsense (not sure how they'll explain that--maybe the nurse that spirited the "dead" P3 away was Violet), he quickly took his "mate" Cane and pressed him into action. Having Cane appear as a long-lost baby WOULD REDIRECT THE GAME...and PREVENT Kay from remembering that it was much later that she had spirited P3 away.

I know this is also far fetched...but what the hell....

The character of Phillip as written years ago was painfully shy, introspective... and always seemed to be "struggling" with something. It makes perfect sense.

I'll say this much: if TB is back as PC3, and if PC3 is gay, then he already has a lock on an Emmy nod next year.

What I see as a potential downside with this scenario, however, is what will happen once Kay and Jill come around to accepting Phillip's sexuality once the shock and disgust wear off. I can see the two each already attempting to hook him up w/ every stray d**k that passes their way; and fighting over which stud-muffin is his ideal mate!