Another World Discussion Thread

[Xanthe]

I was surprised recently to see a scene (sometime around the time Jenna had been humiliated by what is usually described as a "pornographic" video although as far as I know she was just changing her clothes) where Paulina and Kevin appeared to be involved as I had not remembered them together. It turned out that it was a ploy for some reason to annoy Jake.

I note that in the interview Goodwin mentions (with relish) kissing Judi Evans at his audition for the Guiding Light although he did not work with her there.

[Melroser]

I'm a fan of Judi Evans as Paulina and her pairing with Jake. The character became bland to me once she got together with Joe. Even with her pill-popping and drama, I never really cared for Paulina after Jake.

I, too, remember rumblings around the time Cali Timmins being replaced that there was talk of her not liking the role and being vocal about it. I thought it was something along the lines of her not liking Paulina being "weak". First Ken manipulated Paulina for the Red Swan story and then Jake started blackmailing her. Maybe she was happy to find out Paulina shot Jake because Paulina finally fought back. IF she had been vocal about being unhappy and the show had an opportunity to grab Judi, it would make sense to replace Cali. However, I loved Cali in the role. I thought her and Tom Eplin had great chemistry (as he had with almost all on-screen pairings). I wish they hadn't replaced her. Cali could have been a great long-term cast member. 

[Contessa Donatella]

i was always Team Jake & Paulina! Joe? Who cares? And, Vicky belonged with Ryan. Vicky & Jake should have remained pals. 

[chrisml]

I still wish Jake had been killed off when the "Who shot Jake?" storyline started. I think the obsession with Jake hurt the show for years.  The storyline was so icky that the writers wanted us to side with Vicky rather than her sister who had been raped. Only on soaps. 

And I liked Joseph Barbara as Joe. I thought he was a charismatic actor, but soaps tend to flatten out those types of characters. 

[Xanthe]

I wouldn't call that one storyline. That is, during the Who Shot Jake? storyline, Vicky was on Marley's side and was trying to protect her. It was I think only later when they decided to put Jake and Vicky back together that they really let Jake trample on Marley again as if he had never done anything wrong and given all the blondes plus Donna motive to kill him.

Did Vicky have any beef with Marley between the trial and much much later when crazy Marley became obsessed with Jake? I know earlier Vicky and Marley were pitted against each other over Jake (and he was basically a decent guy even if Donna and his mother disapproved of him), or at least Vicky used underhanded tactics to try to hold on to Jake while Marley kept nobly trying not to steal her sister's boyfriend. Then later when Jake thought he was Steven's father Marley sided with Jake and was willing to raise Vicky's baby.

I didn't have a problem with Jake surviving and I liked the part where he was blackmailing Paulina and she was fighting back. But deciding that he and Vicky should be endgame was yucky.

[DRW50]

When Marley returned for Jake and Vicky's wedding, Marley still felt unease surrounding Jake to a certain degree. At that time the writing was very ambivalent about Jake and Vicky even being a proper couple - Jake was gaga over Vicky, but Vicky was still infatuated with Shane and was settling with Jake partly in fear of losing custody of Kirkland to Grant. 

You can see those dynamics here, as Paulina (who is much much too happy about a man she adored marrying Vicky, and given terrible lines like "Can you picture Jake and the kids at the altar, with God and everyone watching?") convinces Marley to pose as Vicky as Vicky has still not returned from talking with Shane.

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Once Michael died, Marley along with Donna blamed Vicky and her back-and-forth with Shane for his death. Then after Marley was run over and scarred, she became obsessed with Jake again.

I remember a soap article on some scenes with Marley and Jake which aired during the obsession story that addressed the rape - I think Ellen Wheeler and Tom Eplin may have asked for or had input in them. An obsessed Marley was simultaneously denying and clearly still angry and broken over Jake raping her. That was a more nuanced and clearly regretful moment from Jake. Jake had always been written as regretful and awkward around Marley. Unfortunately, after the story where Marley held Vicky prisoner, they just had him being a huge [!@#$%^&*] toward her, no nuance and no history.

It was only in the last year or so of the show that they truly whitewashed Jake. 

Edited September 12, 2024 by DRW50

[Contessa Donatella]

Totally true about the twins during the trial, especially. If you recall, there was one day when Marley simply could not cope & she vanished. Vicky knew this, or she found out, and she slipped into place & impersonated Marley, first in conference with Cass & then on the stand. That is when Vicky first learned that Jake had raped Marley. Marley had lied to everyone but Cass saying only that Jake was rough with her but NOT that he had raped her. Again, if you recall, and I have the clip if you do not, but after her testimony, when court convened for the day, Vicky went directly to the ladies' room & totally DESTROYED IT! That was how angry she was that Jake had done this totally terrible unbelievable thing to her sister.

I don't have a good sense of time passing but I do know that at least for awhile after that day,  Vicky was very cold with Jake. 

 

[chrisml]

Thank you all for filling in the gaps of the Jake/Marley/Vicky stories. I was not a consistent viewer after 1991, and I definitely not watch more after Frankie's death. I just remember being disgusted by how Marley was written when Wheeler returned. I still think AW should have done what ATWT did: kill off Jake.

Just throwing it out there: Are there characters from 1985 to 1991 that you feel didn't get a fair shake? Characters or performers you think should have lasted longer. I immediately think of Hank Cheyne's Scott and Sally Spencer's MJ.  I'm sure I could think of many but those two come to mind.

[Xanthe]

Thanks. Not that long ago I saw the episode where Jake and Vicky spent the day in Central Park and I had not realized there was any ambivalence. In the episode you linked it felt like the writers were twisting themselves into knots in order to try to force a situation where Marley would pose as Victoria and the result is an unconvincing jumble. 

Paulina assuring Marley that although Jake was not the right husband for either of them but was ideal for Vicky left a bad taste in my mouth given everything that had happened. Michael Malone was the HW in this period but who knows which dialogue writer would have been responsible for such a generic platitude sidestepping real backstory. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I will take this moment to remind us that every single thing MM pitched got shot down! 

[DRW50]

I do wonder about this - not that I am doubting you personally - because there were a number of stories that felt like carbon copies of his past work, like making Cindy into Alex Olanov and giving a Marty Saybrooke-esque rape trial to Toni Burrell. And there were claims the New Orleans influence was from his bible for that FOX soap that was never picked up. 

I can believe other aspects were foisted onto him.

I may be overstating, because I have not watched that period as closely as I could have, but I felt like the show was not sure about where to go until they finally decided to write Shane out. 

(it's taking all I have not to be annoying and type "Shabobby")

Malone's period had a number of character choices that just felt whiplash for the plot. As AW and soaps by that point often did, but in a few cases it did rankle. Grant being elected mayor was totally unbelievable to me (although sadly not as unbelievable in recent years).

The writing for Paulina by this time was just a complete mess. I can believe that she loved Joe and moved on from Jake, I suppose, but I don't think she would have ever been so gung-ho over Vicky and Jake, especially since she had a bad history with Vicky for years.

[Xanthe]

I can never keep straight which was Shane and which was Bobby. I mean I know they were the same man, magically perfect for Victoria because of a cornea transplant, but even though it should be obvious I always doubt which name goes with which occupation.

[Contessa Donatella]

Bobbareno was the former racecardriver alloneword. Shane had been an Air Force ?Colonel? Pilot? Something. Now a Doctor. Write this down. Bourbon Street 13. At least I think 13. I know Bourbon Street. Also & this is unforgivable Malone thought of Jake as a Cary Grant type. ... totally missed blue collar with generous chip firmly stuck to shoulder. Añd wasn't it then that they moved the playground swings from PA to Michigan????! As we can tell I become quite upset & he was only there for 6 mos. 

Edited September 14, 2024 by Contessa Donatella
Defunct soap bible used at AW.

[DRW50]

They did, yes. 

I was annoyed at all the attempts at overusing the swings as a symbol of lifelong love between Vicky and Jake when that had never been their relationship.

[Contessa Donatella]

Yes, entirely true. But then the idea of moving them! It was just too much.