In what ways ZendallFan.

LOL acting wise, he's as "meh" as Jake is IMO

LOL acting wise, he's as "meh" as Jake is IMO

I won't throw stones at you for saying that.

I'd proably "chicken out" and not go ... I don't drink or do drugs and have always felt uncomfortable in party environments for that reason.

HHA ok fair enough. Still if youw ere invited bya bunch of other college students to a big rager party would you then act all surprised and upset that there would be drinking there? Would you assume there wouldn't be? They just are so ridiculously sheltered and thigns liek gay bars are presented as these dhangerous temptations or something

HHA ok fair enough. Still if youw ere invited bya bunch of other college students to a big rager party would you then act all surprised and upset that there would be drinking there? Would you assume there wouldn't be? They just are so ridiculously sheltered and thigns liek gay bars are presented as these dhangerous temptations or something

Thank you. I'm shocked that Luke and/or Noah didn't want to wait "until marriage" to get freaky with each other. Of course, "until marriage" would have had to have meant waiting until Illinois stopped playing with people's emotions.

Wow. I missed that episode. Imagine my rant that day, if I'd watched. LOL!

That's like when Logo started, they didn't want their homosexual characters to ever be seen drinking, doing a drug or having a one-night stand. EVER. In any show.

See ya... LOL!

OMG ew... that's so unconventional!

My whole life doesn't revolve around being gay, like I have my straight friends, my gay friends. Hell, I was in a fraternity in college, I love football and sports, a lot of gay men do as well. A circuit party here and there is fun, but when I travel to different places, I love to see different cultures and things, etc, they don't have to be gay related in the least, and actually they are never gay related. But you gotta be pretty realistic here, when you say "party" to a group of gay men, it's a lot different then when you say "Hey let's party" to a group of straight people. :lol:

As for Noah getting all freaked out when he was invited to the party, I vaguely remember that episode. Like come on now, grow a pair. Luke and Noah are way, and I mean WAY to friggin sheltered. There isn't anything wrong with not being the party type and the type that's not into the scene, but they have to at least check it out. I think both Luke and Noah are bad representation for gay men in their early 20s. They don't represent any gay guys that I know, the types who like to party and the types who don't.

OMG ew... that's so unconventional!

My whole life doesn't revolve around being gay, like I have my straight friends, my gay friends. Hell, I was in a fraternity in college, I love football and sports, a lot of gay men do as well. A circuit party here and there is fun, but when I travel to different places, I love to see different cultures and things, etc, they don't have to be gay related in the least, and actually they are never gay related. But you gotta be pretty realistic here, when you say "party" to a group of gay men, it's a lot different then when you say "Hey let's party" to a group of straight people. :lol:

As for Noah getting all freaked out when he was invited to the party, I vaguely remember that episode. Like come on now, grow a pair. Luke and Noah are way, and I mean WAY to friggin sheltered. There isn't anything wrong with not being the party type and the type that's not into the scene, but they have to at least check it out. I think both Luke and Noah are bad representation for gay men in their early 20s. They don't represent any gay guys that I know, the types who like to party and the types who don't.

Yeah, I probably should have been clearer in my original post. LOL! I didn't mean that as a gay man, you HAD to drink, do drugs and have one night stands. LOL! I was just pointing out that for a television show to never show beer, or two people in bed... well, on ANY network, it wouldn't work. Except maybe Christian Broadcasting. Imagine 90210 or Melrose without alcohol or sex. Or Cheers! (LOL!)

So to put that restriction on your programming... even if your reason is because you want to break out of a "stereotype"... it takes it too far in the other direction. That's all I meant.

Yeah, I probably should have been clearer in my original post. LOL! I didn't mean that as a gay man, you HAD to drink, do drugs and have one night stands. LOL! I was just pointing out that for a television show to never show beer, or two people in bed... well, on ANY network, it wouldn't work. Except maybe Christian Broadcasting. Imagine 90210 or Melrose without alcohol or sex. Or Cheers! (LOL!)

So to put that restriction on your programming... even if your reason is because you want to break out of a "stereotype"... it takes it too far in the other direction. That's all I meant.

But the thing is though, until the end of time, a vast majority of gay men will at least experiment with drinking, drugs or one night stands. Hell, straight people do it all the time too. It just seems to be more common among the gays and that's probably because of the popularity of circuit parties and being able to stay up all night dancing to your favorite DJ's spinning in Miami, IMO.

I'm shocked that Luke and/or Noah didn't want to wait "until marriage" to get freaky with each other. Of course, "until marriage" would have had to have meant waiting until Illinois stopped playing with people's emotions.

:lol:

Agreed 100% with both you two. In fact I sorta get Logo's concern and sometimes get tired of that party lifestyle gay stereotype (though I've had a few periods in my life where it's been fairly representational lol).

"But the thing is though, until the end of time, a vast majority of gay men will at least experiment with drinking, drugs or one night stands. Hell, straight people do it all the time too. It just seems to be more common among the gays and that's probably because of the popularity of circuit parties and being able to stay up all night dancing to your favorite DJ's spinning in Miami, IMO."

Having a twin sister and seeing her experiences I think more and more this is becoming almsot as common for lots of straights. Either way making Luke and Noah the MOST naive, pure, good, people their age (yeah even with Luke's regular screwups with drinking) when even the other soap characters their age are no longer shown this way because it's out of touch is beyond bizarre.

Wow. I missed that episode. Imagine my rant that day, if I'd watched. LOL!

That's like when Logo started, they didn't want their homosexual characters to ever be seen drinking, doing a drug or having a one-night stand. EVER. In any show.

Are you kidding?! I mean, really? I understand cutting out the nudity from QAF(a show I detest, but that's for another thread), but how are you going to avoid showing your characters drinking, doing drugs, or having one night stands? LOL.

I'm really pissed at Van Hansis because there was potential for Brian and Luke and he didn't even TRY. Hansis didn't even want to play it as though he was wounded and conflicted and maybe, just maybe, he would be interested in Brian. It would have been way more fun to play the whole, "I may be interested in him, but damnit, he's old enough to be my father and he's married to my grandmother" thing instead of him reacting to the kiss as, "Old creeper hitting on me."

He phoned it in because he probably thought, "Oh, why am I gonna make out with this OLD MAN?!" When, granted, it would have been a controversial story for Luke to be involved with a man twice his age, but Laurence Lau is a millionX more charismatic and a performer that Jake Silbermann ever could be.

Are you kidding?! I mean, really? I understand cutting out the nudity from QAF(a show I detest, but that's for another thread), but how are you going to avoid showing your characters drinking, doing drugs, or having one night stands? LOL.

They've since mellowed out, but in the beginning, they didn't want to play into the stereotype that all gay men are sex-crazed drug addicts. Which I understand - you want to show layers and complexities. But to have a rule that a character can't have a drink in their hand is taking it a bit far.

I'm really pissed at Van Hansis because there was potential for Brian and Luke and he didn't even TRY. Hansis didn't even want to play it as though he was wounded and conflicted and maybe, just maybe, he would be interested in Brian. It would have been way more fun to play the whole, "I may be interested in him, but damnit, he's old enough to be my father and he's married to my grandmother" thing instead of him reacting to the kiss as, "Old creeper hitting on me."

He phoned it in because he probably thought, "Oh, why am I gonna make out with this OLD MAN?!" When, granted, it would have been a controversial story for Luke to be involved with a man twice his age, but Laurence Lau is a millionX more charismatic and a performer that Jake Silbermann ever could be.

I'm totally with you on this. I think that would have been a great storyline, but they just don't go in that direction which sucks.

As for Lau, yes, he is so much better than Silbermann. Silbermann is so, so lifeless.

I'm totally with you on this. I think that would have been a great storyline, but they just don't go in that direction which sucks.

As for Lau, yes, he is so much better than Silbermann. Silbermann is so, so lifeless.

And he is still lifeless on today's show.

I'm totally with you on this. I think that would have been a great storyline, but they just don't go in that direction which sucks.

As for Lau, yes, he is so much better than Silbermann. Silbermann is so, so lifeless.

Hmmm. I guess it was on Usenet (rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs; ratsc), I talked about loving Brian and what he could be. The idea of a man who'd lived in denial for half his life (yup, they exist), finally coming into authenticity (think Saul on Brothers and Sisters), and strangely being "mentored" by the younger Luke. Nobody agreed with me, because they were sure ATWT could never tell a story like that with skill.

Ratsc was, of course, right.

Still, when Brian kissed Luke, it seriously made me feel something.

I remember some people on ratsc not believing that a man could "come out" (even to himself) at midlife. Nobody seems to be having the same problem with Otalia, though....

I remember some people on ratsc not believing that a man could "come out" (even to himself) at midlife. Nobody seems to be having the same problem with Otalia, though....

I can't speak for Usenet. But my problem with Luke helping Brian with his struggle to come out was more about the fact that the Noah-story was about Luke helping Noah to come out.

And it was another example that Luke/Noah can't be in a storyline unless it involves coming out, or homophobia.

Luke Snyder - when you just need somebody to kick the closet door open, he's your man.

He's like those gay guys who constantly run around insisting EVERY straight man is gay. It really rubs me the wrong way.

I remember some people on ratsc not believing that a man could "come out" (even to himself) at midlife. Nobody seems to be having the same problem with Otalia, though....

Some people are having that problem with Otalia. I disagree with them but there were vociferous protests, even from gay members of this board, when the idea of Otalia was first floated. I see a lot of support for what is happening now in Olivia's history, but others are/were convinced that Olivia's history means she could never have same-sex feelings. Thankfully, the powerful writing of the Otalia story and the powerhouse acting means they have more fans than detractors though.

I didn't think Van phoned it in on the Brian story. The show just dropped it when it was getting good.

Now that the phase is over, I can see that Van went through a "making goofy faces" phase for awhile there, but I think his recent acting in the dramatic and comedic scenes since Damian came back and Zac and Zoe came on has been wonderful. Jake is also great, far from wooden, just sturdy and reasonable most of the time, like Jon Hensley's Holden.

Edited April 9, 200916 yr by jfung79