The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

RIP to former Congressman, and Oakland mayor, Ron Dellums.

 

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/07/30/report-former-oakland-mayor-congressman-ron-dellum-dies/

[Juliajms]

I can't believe Giuliani actually said unprovoked "he wasn't there physically".  God bless this useful idiot.

 

[Khan]

Or, as Rocky J. Squirrel would say, "HOKEY SMOKES, BULLWINKLE!"

[juppiter]

 

Countries with universal health care ration care to keep costs down. That is not what the Bernie Sanders plan entails. The Bernie Sanders plan entails keeping our current healthcare system with no rationing of care but the government pays for everything and there are no co-pays or deductibles. No country has that. It's a fantasy to imagine that we can both keep our current system of healthcare AND have the government pay for it all.

 

There is fast health care.

There is quality health care.

There is cheap health care.

 

You may only pick two out of those three under any sustainable single-payer plan.

 

I really think the problem is that Americans think single-payer health care and universal health care are the same thing, because Canada is right next door. That is not the case... Look at deep blue Vermont which tried to implement single payer and dropped it because it would have been way too expensive. If deep blue Vermont couldn't do it, how could the US? The Democrats are selling people a bridge in Florida and should be ashamed of themselves. Their support of single payer is equivalent to the Republicans' supporting repealing the ACA during the Obama years. They are just posturing and have zero plans to make it work. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by juppiter

[JaneAusten]

Showing you are uninformed again. 

 

Canada for example(because I have family and friends who live there and use their healthcare system) does not RATION healthcare. What they do is prioritize care based on the most urgent need. That doesn't mean I can't see a doctor if I have the flu or that you cannot get preventative care, it means that someone who needs to have rhinoplasty surgery for example due to non life threatening sinus issues might not get the surgery immediately over someone who needs to have bypass surgery and without it may die.

 

And you try and get into seeing a specialist in the United States anywhere under our great private healthcare system. My neighbor had to wait 6 weeks to get her daughter in to seeing a neurologist, who was diagnosed with epilepsy. In the meantime she ended up in the emergency room 3 times in that timeframe due to seizures. The neurologist by the way had access to additional testing metrics and other drug plans that a doctor of internal medicine does not have. Once she got in, she was put on a newly approved drug only available to specialists which turned out was able to control her seizures. She may have died from one of the 3 seizures she had while waiting for the appointment our great private healthcare system was able to provide to her.

 

The Bernie Sanders plan as you call it is Medicare. Medicare where physicians and hospitals negotiate directly with the gvmt on the cost for procedures, doctor visits, surgeries and the providers who serve medicare patients(most providers by the way) agree to accept those payments. They don't have a middle man demanding to make a profit off of this as you do when you are dealing with an insurance company or doctors and hospitals upping costs because they know the insurance company is more than willing to pay it and skim off profit for themselves.

 

Medicare allows seniors here to:

- get healthcare expeditiously

- get quality healthcare

- get affordable healthcare

 

This would save taxpayers and the gvmt by the way trillions of dollars.

 

God forbid any of you want to save money when you are plenty happy paying private prisons $800/day to jail toddlers in detention camps to private prison contractors. Federally run prisons which are not for profit manage to jail prisoners for less than $200/day

 

[juppiter]

 

Right, and that is totally sensible if you have a single payer health care plan, but that's not what's being proposed by Bernie and being co-signed by notable Democrats. What is being proposed by Bernie is that we keep our exact same health care plan except the government pays for it all. 

[Juliajms]

^ Who cares what Bernie is proposing? He's not even a Democrat. There are plenty of Democrats who are proposing medicare for all. There is no perfect heath care system.  A system doesn't have to be perfect to be more fair than the one we have right now.

 

By the way we do ration healthcare. One of the reason our system is so fast is that there are so many people excluded from it.  That's a kind of rationing.

[Wendy]

 

You explained it all better than I could.

[juppiter]

 

Well, indeed, who? Dems are co-signing his bill so obviously they do care.

 

Millions of people voted for him in the primary, but they are invalid, according to you, because he is not really a Dem. 

 

Of course we already ration care. We consider people who are working more deserving of care. Bernie’s plan, which Dems have signed onto, keeps our current system and says the government will pay for it and there is no answer for how.

Edited July 31, 2018 by juppiter

[Wendy]

Trump Administration mulls doing Executive Order for yet another tax cut for the rich - without Congressional input:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-administration-considers-tax-cut-for-the-wealthy/2018/07/30/1dbaafbc-9442-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?utm_term=.c73eccc28ce8

 

On a brighter note, Obama and Biden have lunch in Georgetown - and the crowd goes wild:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/reliable-source/wp/2018/07/30/barack-obama-and-joe-biden-grab-lunch-in-georgetown-and-the-crowd-goes-wild/?utm_term=.4da38978e6e3

Edited July 31, 2018 by Wendy

[Khan]

 

But what about the homeless?  What about the underaged, the disabled; the ones who work and STILL cannot afford healthcare (because, believe it or not, they do exist), or the ones who simply cannot find work (with OR without employer-provided healthcare, they exist as well)?  What do you suppose we do about them?  Say a prayer and pass them the aspirin?

 

Julia's right: there IS no perfect health care system.  But what we had before Obama even attempted to remedy the situation -- and what we'll have again, if we keep allowing the GOP to chip away at the ACA before there's nothing left -- was, and is, downright criminal.

 

But, you know, I have this sneaking suspicion that if George W. Bush, let's say, had proposed a nationalized healthcare system that was EXACTLY like Obamacare, or even what HRC had tried (and failed) to make happen during her husband's administration, the GOP would have been crazy for it like it was the last banana split at an ice cream shop.

 

 

Executive orders, eh?  And without Congressional input?  Isn't that one of the GOP's chief complaints about the previous administration?

 

Don't look now, GOP, but it looks like your hypocrisy is showing.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Khan

[Wendy]

 

Meanwhile, the rubes in Podunk will wave their Chinese-made MAGA hats and scream "LOCK HER UP!" and continue to smile as Cheeto spits in their faces and fleeces them.

[Juliajms]

Of course there is an answer for how to pay for it. Taxing capital gains at a higher rate seems like the most obvious.  How about raising taxes on the wealthy instead of lowering them?  If you're all for people who work, you certainly can't object to that. Why should Warren Buffet pay a smaller percentage of his income than the McDonald's worker that serves up his morning breakfast?

 

How about a penny tax on every stock transaction.  We have high frequency trading that allows the wealthy to cash in on the market in ways the average person can't, seems wise to tax that.  We have record amounts of income inequality and it's only going to get worse as long as we tax wealth at such low rates.  You may want to pay a higher percentage in taxes than people on their way to having a trillion dollars in wealth, but I do not.

 

Also, I didn't say Bernie's voters are invalid.   Bernie lost the primary. He doesn't lead the party.  We'll see what the candidate in 2020 comes up with. That said,  I'd certainly take Bernie's plan over letting poor people be excluded from healthcare again.  The ER is a very expensive and dangerous way to get primary care.

 

 

[GMac]

 

 

The right loves to come back to the Bernie martyrdom well, don't they?   

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Why is there always push-back from the republicans on "how to pay for something" when it's on the subject of healthcare, education, unemployment benefits, social security (you know, the programs that benefit everyone and not just the rich), but nary a peep about how to pay for the huge tax break they just gave the wealthy or the border wall???  @juppiter

 

So the "how to pay for it" argument is hogwash.  

 

[Juliajms]

I'll never fall for it again. The Republicans have lost all credibility after that ridiculous tax cut for the wealthy. Their greed is endless.