Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Sapounopera]

Early Loving had a lot of potential. So many early changes were a big mistake.

Cabot, Isabelle, Father Jim, (perhaps Mike and Noreen?) were not needed from the start.  

[NothinButAttitude]

But from reading up on Loving, didn't we need Cabot and Isabelle to center the Aldens? Cabot seemed to be a protector for the fragile Ann and wasn't Isabelle used to center Curtis until his sector of the family started to drift onto the canvas a year or two after the inception? 

I agree that Jim, Mike, and Noreen weren't needed originally if the intention was always to throw them into a quad with Shana. But again, was that the original plan? 

[Sapounopera]

We could see parts of Cabot and Isabelle in Roger and Ann. The Forbes family was what really mattered in early Loving. Then came Shana, Gwyneth, Trisha and Clay. 

If the show had a more interesting Merril, Shana would not even be needed for a while. 

[j swift]

I think there is a sense of maturity, or liberation, in Curtis that comes from being raised by his grandparents that makes for an interesting contrast to Jack and Stacy.  Stacy is obviously beholden to the values of her close family.   But, Curtis can be mischievous because he was neglected by his parents and allowed to act out without fear of reprimand. 

So, I think the initial family structure is vital to setting up the Curtis and Jack rivalry. 

[Forever8]

I love it when more of Loving, especially from the early years, comes available. 

I just finished watching the 1983 episode, and I can spout Doug Marland's influence, which was with the Donovan's congregating in the family kitchen, as this is the first time I've seen Rose and Patrick. The episodes I've seen were when they were in Florida, and even in this episode, they were talking about them moving there.

I also like seeing the young adult scene, as you can see the familial relationship between Curtis and Jack while Lorna was flirting with Mike but still believing she had a chance with Doug despite his upcoming wedding to Merill. 

Meanwhile, it seems Rita Mae and Billy were on a different show altogether, even if Curtis is involved in their story. 

[DRW50]

Of all the Aldens that would be centered on for most of the show's run (Trisha, Gwyn, Clay, and to a point Cabot and Isabelle), Curtis is the one who is most interesting, especially the jovial nature that belies an uglier underbelly. It's a shame the show lost this in the early '90s and then finally just made him a headcase. 

[Forever8]

THIS!

I think another issue is that none of the umpteenth writers and producers didn't know who Curtis Alden was supposed to be. Was he the sardonic Alden relative? The war vet? or the antihero romantic vying for women against his father or best friend? but sadly, they went for the headcase at the end. 

[DRW50]

That was absolutely a big factor. It was easier to write for the Aldens around him as they were generally more one-dimensional.

Cooper might be a more successful version of what they initially tried with Curtis.

Edited July 25, 2024 by DRW50

[Sapounopera]

Linden Ashby's Curtis was a completely different character. I think the show should have played with Curtis and Ava against Jack and Stacey for years. The relationship with Lotty made him way too nice. Burke Moses was just there and Stan Albers was just a kid. I haven't seen any of the other actors.

I loved the 1983 episode. The Donovans was all Marland. The Bristows were Agnes. The young crowd was Douglas and Agnes combined. I guess Jack Forbes is Phillip Spaulding all grown up. Perhaps Rick would become his Curtis. We know he had a Lily in Beth. I find it very interesting that Marland left GL and wrote the love story of an adopted heir and an abused young girl, while the same things were happening in Springfield.

[dc11786]

Originally the plan was for a Mike / Rita Mae / Curtis triangle with Rita Mae disillusioned with her marriage due to Billy's impotence. The triangle would have solidified Mike/Curtis rivalry built up over Rita Mae, Curtis' interest in Stacey, and eventually the assumption on Mike's part that Curtis was connected to the drug trade that was going on at Alden University that had led to Patrick Donovan's death. The problem becomes once you pull away one of those threads (I imagine the first to go was Billy's impotence) they slowly lost the plot. I would have dumped Rita Mae and Billy when the impotence plot was nixed. 

Jim was described as a talk-to for Merrill in the bible; a moral conscious for the woman breaking up a married politician's marriage even though she didn't really want Roger for herself. 

A lot of characters were not very fleshed out in terms of character, story, or both. For years, one of my bigger complaints is that everyone is married at the beginning. Out of of twenty contract characters, eight were unmarried, unless we count Jim as married to God.  

 

[Khan]

SMH.

I'll say it again: too damn many for a half-hour soap that's starting out.

[Paul Raven]

Seems like every new soap 30 or 60 min had too many characters and stories at the start and inevitably, within the first few months those B stories/characters are axed.

So keep the cast small at the start and focus on 2 or so stories. maybe have the other characters around but strictly as supporting. Then as the show settles in after a month-6 weeks,expand the canvas with additional characters and stories.

It might mean more work at the start for the main actors but would pay off in terms of viewer interest.

[DRW50]

I was going through a disc and found some clips of Angie and Jacob I'd downloaded off Youtube years and years ago. I am not sure if the Loving clips are already up, but I checked and this from The City wasn't as far as I could tell. If anyone can help with a closer date, I'd appreciate it. I think it's late October or early November 1996, if that helps with your playlist @Joseph. 

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[John]

Stan Albers was maybe the closet to Chris Marcantel as Curtis. The 1992 /93 Curtises before CM returned were generic and hunky. That is about it. 

[Joseph]

Ok, I'll Include this clip too

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