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Loving/The City Discussion Thread


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That makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain why I was interested in the show. The Loving Murders does feel like something that could have ripped through a P&G town (like AW...repeatedly).

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I think a lot of us are fascinated with LOV for a lot of reasons, not just those of us who love the Murders but also particularly the protean nature of the show; how it morphs into so many different shows and canvases over and over, especially in the '90s. There's so many disparate pieces that work or could work. But I would disagree that there's not much of Agnes in it. I said in the past and stand by the idea that it can be seen as an Agnes test laboratory for various stories, concepts, character archetypes, etc. which she revisited over and over through her career, including again and again at AMC in later years - in addition to Ava and Kate, Ally, etc., I think Cooper and Hannah, Steffi, etc. all are descended from Phil and Tara and other Agnes young love attempts, and can be seen to prefigure Becca and Scott, Greenlee, etc., all the way down to Pete and Celia and poor sweet suffering rich boy A.J. at AMC 2.0. You have various goofball characters (Egypt) that resemble her AMC successes or that she later tried to recreate again (arguably in the redemption attempts with Kate Collins' Janet at the end of AMC in summer '11, and Billy Clyde on AMC 2.0); you have the older Black character who is clearly an analog for Sadie Gray after Agnes tried and failed to port Ellen Holly and Lillian Hayman from OLTL to LOV. Here, in this misty little show too few watched, Agnes tinkered with her private fascinations over and over. That's a big part of what makes me often revisit the show, in addition to the unique visions of other writing teams coming in over and over trying to reconfigure the show to new visions from those parts. And that's not even getting to the Marland stuff early on.

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I can definitely see Minnie as potentially filling the role Sadie could have had.

It's interesting how much better the young love elements of Loving were (especially the Cooper/Ally/Casey/Steffi quad) compared to what happened with AMC in the '90s and early '00s. I'm not sure why - maybe more ABC influence and poorer producers and writers. 

I wish Agnes could have done more about the hatchet job on Egypt in her '94 return.

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She hypnotized Charles into forgetting about the circumstances of the deaths of Jacob's wife and son. Casey's death was unrelated - he was killed by Pat Graham.

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