On 2/14/2024 at 7:14 PM, OzFrog said:

I’ve just finished binge watching some 90s Loving playlists - as much as people rave about Casey and Ally, I actually found Cooper and Steffi just as captivating a couple to watch.

I never truly appreciated how much Cooper transformed as a character throughout his run on Loving until I watched him through the arranged marriage with Ally and then his ultimate romance with Steffi. The Casey/Ally/Cooper/Steffi quadrangle is IMO one of the best I’ve seen on US daytime soaps, and ranks up there with the 80s GL Fab Four.

And a lot of that comes down to the sheer talent of all four actors, Paul Anthony Stewart, Laura Wright, Michael Weatherley and Amelia Heinle - all of whom would go on to have successful careers whether in daytime or primetime. They all had such amazing chemistry with each other!

Cooper and Steffi are great. I think because there time is shorter than Casey and Ally's, they might get lost in the overall scheme of things. Steffi and Cooper came together nicely at the end of Agnes Nixon's 1993-1994 run with the Cradle Foundation and Walsh & McCarthy just continue to run with them. 

Cooper and Steffi are both such broken people. I love their look at the anniversary party for Alden Enterprises when they are dressed like they are from the 1930s. 

I adore Steffi. Amelia Heinle and Jessica Collins were true finds in the late stage of "Loving" in terms of taking whatever was thrown at their characters and making it work. Paul Anthony Stewart was excellent like his spiritual predecessor Eric Woodall. Woodall's performance as Matt is quite compelling. 

Steffi and Casey as a couple was the real surprise for me when I was watching "Loving" for the first time. 

On 2/15/2024 at 1:38 AM, Paul Raven said:

Bill was not there at the beginning and arrived at Xmas for a few eps played by Paul Carr. Ed Mallory assumed the role in June 66. so really it was only Mickey, Marie and Julie. And Mickey was strong supporting, not leading  story.

I think the plan all along was to establish Addie/Ben/Steven and then have Julie stay on as a neglected teen.

Not sure which Loving characters should not have been there at the start but a few might have been held back with the focus on fewer characters and stories at the start to help viewers get into the show.

Fair regarding Bill. For some reason, I thought he was more present.

I would argue that Mickey's role as supporting is a little misleading. There were two fairly hefty legal issues in the pre-Bill Bell era with the Sawyer family suing Tom for the death of their patriarch because Tom had been busy to tending to Marie when she attempted suicide and Mickey was involved in the investigation of Woodstock Industries, who had dumped chemicals in the river that had poisoned Julie. His romance with Diane Hunter might not have been front burner, but I feel like his professional life was front burner even if his romantic one wasn't. 

On 2/15/2024 at 3:51 AM, Sapounopera said:

Cabot and Isabelle were not really needed and we could have parts of them brought to Roger and Ann. Even Shanna could have been brought as Johnny's daughter, or Ann's estranged sister from the start.

I think killing off Johnny was a silly move and not because Lloyd Bridges was a name. The Johnny character needed a bit more care and polishing. He was the original murderer in the pilot film in the planning stages where he was clearly crafted as a more Joseph Kennedy-esque political wheeler dealer. I think they should have gone that route, but presented him as a bit more of a mafioso adjacent type in contrast to the Aldens with Cabot despising him because of Forbes' "new money" status and not really wanting the marriage between Roger and Ann.  I would have had him allign with Dane Hammond and had Johnny feeding him resources and money in his pursuit of AE. I would have kept Johnny in a minor role, recurring with some heavy play at times, but again someone in the background. Similar, I'd have done the same with Jake Vochek, the Vochek patriarch, but I would have eventually paired him with Rose.

Down the line, I'd probably have married off Johnny to the Vochek matriarch, who I always imagined as this woman who abandoned her family to live a more glamorous life, but would end up down and out and back in Corinth only to learn that her husband had faked her death to keep his kids from realizing that their mother had abandoned them. I see the woman, who I call Sophia Vochek, as a lounge singer type who has briefly married into some money as a wealthy man's second or third wife and had a contentious relationship with her stepkids who would eventually have been disinherited after her husband's death when one of the kids learned the truth: she had never divorced her first husband. 

I also probably could have crafted a whole story around the man dying and the stepson hiring Noreen to be the man's nurse and Sophia trying to terminate her marriage to Victor and quietly remarry her second husband before he died hoping that this would make everything legal with, of course, nothing working out the way it was suppose to. 

On 2/15/2024 at 11:23 AM, Khan said:

I always forget about Billy and Rita Mae Bristow.  Did they have any familial connections with the core families?

In the bible, Rita Mae was slated for an affair with Curtis and Mike. There was an attempt to build a rivalry between Mike and Curtis that stemmed from (a) Rita Mae's casual fling with Curtis and (b) Mike's suspicions that Curtis was tied to the drug ring that had inadvertedly led to Patrick Donovan's death. Rita Mae was a more sinister character in the bible who lured Curtis into a trap where Mike beat the crap out of him and Rita Mae seemingly found this a turn on. 

The problem was the source of Rita Mae's need for the attention of other men was supposed to be because Billy was impotent. This story wasn't told; mostly likely due to network interference. Also, Ann Forbes was storyless and it was probably decided there was more mileage from an Ann/Mike relationship than Mike/Rita Mae. 

There was also a niece, Colby Cantrell, who was added at the end of the first year. Colby worked at Burnell's and was torn between Curtis Alden and Keith Lane. Keith was involved with Gwyneth so there was a bit of a mother-son love quad. 

Not sure if this one has been up before. I am not sure of the exact date other than sometime in 1987 due to Steve and Luke Perry/Alexandra Wilson all being around. Unfortunately, it's not in English but I thought people would still enjoy it, especially as this period isn't well represented. You also get to see Shana in one of the most hideous sweaters I've ever seen on television. 

I wasn't sure who the woman talking with Gwyn and Ann is.

@dc11786 @slick jones @Kane @Sapounopera @Paul Raven@te. @j swift@Khan @OzFrog @Vee @Franko

 

A partial episode from around the same time they uploaded a few weeks ago. This is right before Trisha marries Steve.

Peter Davies spends all his scenes in a towel so @Soapsuds you may enjoy this.

Is that Geoffrey Ewing in the prison scenes or is it someone else? If it is him, I never knew he was on Loving twice.

I never knew the town paper was called Corinthian either.

 

Edited February 24, 20241 yr by DRW50

34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Not sure if this one has been up before. I am not sure of the exact date other than sometime in 1987 due to Steve and Luke Perry/Alexandra Wilson all being around. Unfortunately, it's not in English but I thought people would still enjoy it, especially as this period isn't well represented. You also get to see Shana in one of the most hideous sweaters I've ever seen on television. 

I wasn't sure who the woman talking with Gwyn and Ann is.

@dc11786 @slick jones @Kane @Sapounopera @Paul Raven@te. @j swift@Khan @OzFrog @Vee @Franko

 

iI think that's April's Aunt, Marty Edison (Isabel Glasser). She was a photographer.

That looks like Geoofrey Ewing, but I'm just not positive.

17 minutes ago, slick jones said:

iI think that's April's Aunt, Marty Edison (Isabel Glasser). She was a photographer.

That looks like Geoofrey Ewing, but I'm just not positive.

Thanks so much. The Loving casts were small enough to where sometimes I think I know most of them but there are always surprises. I appreciate your help.

I hope we might get more from this period so we might know for sure if it's Geoffrey.

These have probably already been posted, but if not:

 

Edited February 24, 20241 yr by DRW50

Whatever happened to Peter Davies anyway?  And why did they write him out of the show?

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Not sure if this one has been up before. I am not sure of the exact date other than sometime in 1987 due to Steve and Luke Perry/Alexandra Wilson all being around. Unfortunately, it's not in English but I thought people would still enjoy it, especially as this period isn't well represented. You also get to see Shana in one of the most hideous sweaters I've ever seen on television. 

Thanks for the tag; always nice to see an 80s episode, even if it isn't in English. I think it's from late September/early October of 1987.

12 hours ago, slick jones said:

iI think that's April's Aunt, Marty Edison (Isabel Glasser). She was a photographer.

That's her. She becomes Amourelle's resident photographer not long before she and April are written out.

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

A partial episode from around the same time they uploaded a few weeks ago. This is right before Trisha marries Steve.

Peter Davies spends all his scenes in a towel so @Soapsuds you may enjoy this.

Is that Geoffrey Ewing in the prison scenes or is it someone else? If it is him, I never knew he was on Loving twice.

I never knew the town paper was called Corinthian either.

 

Thanks!

It's scary that you know me too well.😂

5 hours ago, Khan said:

Whatever happened to Peter Davies anyway?  And why did they write him out of the show?

I wonder if Susan Keith wanted to leave and they wrote him out with her. I think when they approached her to return they pitched the idea of killing off Jim and their son.

Thanks @Kane for your help.

Does anyone know which building was used as the SOHO apartment building on The City?  What was it's real address?  And did ABC lease the place, or just get permission to shoot the exteriors?  Anyone have pics of how it looks today?

20 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Not sure if this one has been up before. I am not sure of the exact date other than sometime in 1987 due to Steve and Luke Perry/Alexandra Wilson all being around. Unfortunately, it's not in English but I thought people would still enjoy it, especially as this period isn't well represented. You also get to see Shana in one of the most hideous sweaters I've ever seen on television. 

I wasn't sure who the woman talking with Gwyn and Ann is.

@dc11786 @slick jones @Kane @Sapounopera @Paul Raven@te. @j swift@Khan @OzFrog @Vee @Franko

 

Thanks heaps for this, @DRW50! Judging from the Loving synopses I’ve read on Tumblr (https://classicsodloving.tumblr.com/), this looks to be first week of October 1987.

2 minutes ago, OzFrog said:

Judging from the Loving synopses I’ve read on Tumblr (https://classicsodloving.tumblr.com/), this looks to be first week of October 1987.

Thanks! I had totally forgotten those recaps were on tumblr so this is a good resource.

Lynda Hirsch quoted Susan Keith at the time of her departure (mid-May, 1989) that Keith and Davies had both been let go. Keith talked about how the couple had been getting less and less story once they had been married, but suggested that playing the dynamic of Shana wanting a child while Stacey was dealing with an unwanted pregnancy would have been worth exploring. In this context, I actually understand bitchy Shana circa fall 1991 much better than I ever have. 

Keith also cited the turnover in writers and producers. Joe Hardy would have been producing at this point with Tom King and Millee Taggart writing. 

@DRW50 Thanks for posting that. 1987 isn't really the best year for the show, though I agree I wish more would appear. The November, 1987 episodes that popped up later were much stronger and I would be curious to see the teen set that started off the year with Kelly Conway (surrogate Alden granddaughter) and Rob Carpenter (working class punk). Overall, the April Hathaway tale seems very unappealing and a poor imitation of the Donna Beck story Nixon had told on "All My Children."

6 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Lynda Hirsch quoted Susan Keith at the time of her departure (mid-May, 1989) that Keith and Davies had both been let go. Keith talked about how the couple had been getting less and less story once they had been married, but suggested that playing the dynamic of Shana wanting a child while Stacey was dealing with an unwanted pregnancy would have been worth exploring. In this context, I actually understand bitchy Shana circa fall 1991 much better than I ever have. 

Keith also cited the turnover in writers and producers. Joe Hardy would have been producing at this point with Tom King and Millee Taggart writing. 

 Thanks for posting that. 1987 isn't really the best year for the show, though I agree I wish more would appear. The November, 1987 episodes that popped up later were much stronger and I would be curious to see the teen set that started off the year with Kelly Conway (surrogate Alden granddaughter) and Rob Carpenter (working class punk). Overall, the April Hathaway tale seems very unappealing and a poor imitation of the Donna Beck story Nixon had told on "All My Children."

Thanks for your help. I would like to see them too.

I didn't remember Keith had been let go twice. That must sting. I suppose she was on the show long enough that I assume she might have been a more popular character with viewers than she was. I get the choice in 1994 but I think there was still more to do with her in 1989, with so many moving pieces around (why not revisit her old ties to Alex/Clay? Why not just kill off Jim around that time and play out the estrangement with the Aldens we got when she came back?).

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by DRW50

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks for your help. I would like to see them too.

I didn't remember Keith had been let go twice. That must sting. I suppose she was on the show long enough that I assume she might have been a more popular character with viewers than she was. I get the choice in 1994 but I think there was still more to do with her in 1989, with so many moving pieces around (why not revisit her old ties to Alex/Clay? Why not just kill off Jim around that time and play out the estrangement with the Aldens we got when she came back?).

Thank you for the 1987 episode! 

Shana could have been the show's Iris Carrington or Tracy Q. They turned her into a very boring character once she was domesticated with Father Jim. And Gwyneth became the Alden b*tch.