Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[Soaplovers]

I think the problem with Marland writing a half hour soap was that he probably couldn't feature all the characters/stories that he wanted because of the half hour format.

Half hour soaps have their unique challenges where you have to create a rich world with a smaller number of characters and plots than you could on an hour long show.  There was an interview someone posted awhile back on one of the forums where Marland, Pam Long, and another writer were interviewed on TV.. and Pam Long said she found writing the half hour format harder than the hour format.

[Khan]

Conversely, Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon hated the hour format, because they felt it required too much padding.

I agree.  Clearly, Douglas Marland loved to tell big stories with a lot of characters.  (He would have killed on a streaming series, by the way).  A half-hour soap doesn't lend itself to big "umbrella stories," because the amount of time per episode is so limited.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Fair points about Marland.  I doubt it would have been his most successful soap gig, but he maybe could have provided new energy and maybe appeased the network somewhat without decimating what RH had been.  And Falken Smith couldn't have come cheap at that point, so whatever else there was a point when ABC was willing to spend money on RH.

Edited November 26, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[Khan]

For sure, I think Douglas Marland would have respected Labine & Mayer's vision enough to keep the Ryans and Ryan's Pub front-and-center.  He might have been okay with writing for the Coleridges, too.  The only question mark in this situation is Delia.  In Marland's hands, Delia either would have become boring or overly kooky.

[Soaplovers]

I think Marland would have a very bad fit for the show.  He wouldn't have been able to capture the essence of the Ryan's nor what made the show so unique.

While Marland could write a good umbrella story, his day to day episodes were quite dry and boring with too much exposition.  I used to watch episodes of his ATWT and GL and remark how unrealistic the characters were when interacting with one another.

You needed a writer that could handle the half hour format, understood the dynamics of the Ryans/Coleridges, and captured the feel of the close knit New York City neighborhood.  I can't think of any writer that could have been able to write about the Irish Catholic Ryans and the upper crust Coleridges well... that wasn't Claire Labine.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Oh, my alternative soap history was pretty much pegged at 1983-84, and Marland would have been in lieu of Falken-Smith.  My guess is Delia would have stayed in San Diego for however long he was head writer, probably no more than 2-3 years, which by all accounts would have been better than Robin Mattson's brief run.

I imagine the Coleridges would have still had a place on a Marland canvas, like the Stewarts on ATWT, but the focus would have been on the Ryans and (probably) a new, more ostentatiously uppercrust family that actually had stories directly connected to the main Ryans.  Most likely, via a daughter who was switched at birth at the same time of one of Maeve's pregnancy losses (I know, I know, the dialogue was very specific that Maeve's only stillbirth was Sean, and the rest were miscarriages.  But unless ABC would have allowed for the introduction of a gay male or trans Lily Walsh prototype who longed for the simple life at Ryan's Bar—which would have been amazing—I suspect Marland would have found a way to fudge that detail).

Oh, it still definitely would have been a departure from what RH had been, not least because of the dialogue.  I just think it could have been interesting story-wise, without damaging the core of the show, and might have led to the introduction of characters/elements that Labine/Mayer would have had fun with later.  Kind of like how Claire Labine seemingly went with the ridiculous aging of Ryan and John Reid in her last return, even if she probably never would have pulled that trigger so quickly (and, I suspect, would have mined their on-screen childhoods to "create" more interesting adult characters for them than the interim writers did).

And maybe it could have bought the show a little more time?

Edited November 26, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[danfling]

Mr. Marland wrote for two thirty-minute daytime dramas, The Doctors and Loving.

I think that he would have been a poor choice as a writer for Ryan's Hope or for any other show, for that matter.

 

[Soaplovers]

@Khan  @DeliaIrisFan

 

Upon giving it some thought, Delia would probably  have been the only character that I think Marland could truly have written well since she was a more neurotic version of Nola Reardon.

The only other character that I think he might have had a good grasp on was Faith.. that character was such a Marland character and with his obsession with writing about therapy.. Faith was the perfect character.

[safe]

That would have kept both characters on the show instead of shipping them off to San Diego and the Mayo Clinic.

I'm thinking they would have hired someone other than Robin Mattson to play Delia. I know very little about Douglas Marland but perhaps hired one of the previous actresses he wrote for on one of his other shows  --- or would they kept Ilene and written in the weight issue as some medicine induced condition that Ilene experienced. Would Karen have put up with the misery she felt working for Joe Hardy and stayed or would they have recast Faith, too.

I've always had an issue that only the female characters seemed to go therapy.  Delia (and after only three months of therapy was then deemed well enough for Roger to propose to her ), Faith (and while Faith said she was seeing three different psychiatrists---  very little onscreen time was ever spent on Faith's therapy or even on her alcohol rehabilitation ---where she went straight to becoming an alcohol counselor), Amanda, and Johnny had made Siobhan a psychiatrist appointment when she was wanted to reunite with Joe. Can someone help refresh my memory ---did any male characters get therapy?

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by safe

[Khan]

ABC would have needed to think outside the proverbial box and hire a HW with little-to-no previous experience in soaps.  Or, if we were talking about post-Pat Falken Smith, maybe someone like Susan Bedsow Horgan, since she loves everything related to Gaelic culture.

[DeliaIrisFan]

I wonder what Mary Ryan Munisteri could have done as head writer at a better time, and/or with a co–head writer who brought some complementary skills to the table and possibly an outsider's perspective (perhaps the aforementioned Martha Nochimson, but Horgan would also have been interesting, going by her very brief stint at Prospect Park's OLTL).

MRM got promoted only after Labine and Mayer each left at different times in a matter of months, and her predecessors had already begun introducing the Kirklands - when clearly their hearts weren't in it.  At least if the network had given a new head writer a mandate to create a new, wealthy family, they could have had the chance to develop characters they actually believed in.  Also, RH had already veered off-track (and lost momentum) by 1982.  Mary's murder might have been a better turning point for a handover behind the scenes, especially if Kim was going to be central to the new direction, since she was the one who could identify the killer.  Maybe that would have been the time to go all-in on Kim, including her newfound family.

[Paul Raven]

Marland always like to incorporate the 'have nots' usually a large family striving for personal and social success eg The Reardons/GL, The Syders ATWT, The Donovans,LOV, The Spencers GH.

Also a young love couple eg Morgan/Kelly GL, Holden/Lily ATWT, Jack/Stacey LOV, Scotty/Laura GH

How would that fit with RH at that time?

[Franko]

Delia and Bob's long-lost kin? Or a fresh off the boat branch of the Ryans? Jumping slightly ahead in the timeline, I'm imagining one of the immigrants giving a soliloquy about how they should have known America wasn't going to be the answer to every prayer when they couldn't even see the Statue of Liberty's face (a tie-in to the 1984-86 renovation before its centennial).

[watson71]

Had RH made it to the 2000s- how do you think the show would have incorporated the 9/11 attack into the storyline given the NYC locale of the show?

[Mona Kane Croft]

They could not have done it in real time (or anything close to real time), because they would have been taping too far ahead.  And playing it out a month later would have probably come across as distasteful.  So they might have waited until the first anniversary, and done a tribute then -- as if 9/11 happened and they experienced it, but the audience just didn't see it play out on camera.

 Some real life events are awkward and painful for the audience to re-live on a soap.  And some, the audience simply would prefer not to re-live.  So I think a tribute on the first anniversary would have been RH's mostly likely choice.  Just speculation on my part.