Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[althea-davis]

You're right. Reading a little further, the writer says Claire wasn't apparently a party to the idea of killing him off. But I was surprised by the book writer saying Pavel's death was one of the "Biggest blunders" in the history of the show. There are other blunders I would consider bigger than that. All in all, though, I am just really glad someone is writing about this show and cares about daytime history. I just wish there was more info. on the early days of the soap. I would have loved some insight into the Nell story, for example.

[DRW50]

I agree - the Nell story was one of my favorite stories on the show. Or any soap.

I am not biased against Michael Corbett, as I enjoyed his run on Y&R, but I hated his RH character and any story involving Kimberley is a non-starter for me. I'm sure he did have fans, but given that the character helped cause Siobhan to lose her baby, I question if he was that beloved. Even if he did have a lot of fans, I don't think killing him was a huge blunder. He wouldn't have gone anywhere noteworthy if he'd stayed on the show. Look at what a hard time they had with other characters like Joe Novak.

[Soaplovers]

I thought I had read that the Kim/Michael/Rae climax in the summer of 1981 during the writer strike netted the show some good viewership.  

Maybe Labine had sour grapes because this wasn't her idea and that idea helped the show get a bump in viewers.  

[safe]

 

 I've always been curious as to how long Nell's story would have continued ---and what it would have been ---if the show didn't have to shorten the story because Diana van der Vlis' health forced her to quit. A Nell/Seneca/Jill triangle? So few women doctors back then ---could Nell have become a mentor to Faith? How would she have reacted to Bucky and Reenie?

Edited November 4, 2023 by safe

[DeliaIrisFan]

Oh, I disagree.  I think the characters were so complex and unique—partly informed by the actors who created the roles of course—that the show couldn't just go out and find another "type" to replace them.

If anything, I think Frank was easiest to recast because he was the least defined at the beginning.  My guess is Labine and Mayer had a handle on who they thought Frank was, but the audience was introduced to him in other characters' (idealized) flashbacks.  If he had died as planned, I wonder if Frank would have remained kind of an enigma, with all those who knew him remembering him differently.  Anyway, no actor had ever fully embodied all those original aspects of who the audience thought Frank might be, so there was more leeway to write to different actors' strengths over the years. 

Also, for much of the show's run, the Frank recasts may have benefited from audiences having a uniquely positive association with the words, "The role of Frank Ryan will now be played by..."  RIP Michael Hawkins, and I know he was dealing with his issues, but the first time those words were uttered a lot of viewers must have breathed a sigh of relief (I know I did when I watched on SoapNet).  Andrew Robinson was such an improvement from day one, and most if not all of the subsequent Franks brought something unique and really good to the table as well.  Whereas by the time Nicolette Goulet debuted as the fourth Mary inside a year, the audience had to be at their wits' end.

[DeliaIrisFan]

I've just finished the 1980 section of the book, and I'm about to begin the chapter on the 1981 writers' strike.  Ana Alicia and Jose Aleman's interviews—and what they and others had to say about Hannibal Penney—were tough to read, but would be tougher to argue with.  That really sucks, for a lot of reasons, including my love for the show and respect for its creators.  That is still there, but they could and should have done better by these actors/characters.

Not to make excuses, but reading about Penney did remind me of a rumor someone who claimed to have insider knowledge posted on the old SoapNet board: that in the show's original bible, Clem was intended to have an interracial relationship with Faith.  I don't know that that was ever totally debunked; as far as I know, it was never verified.  And I have learned to be even more skeptical of things I read online in the past 20-25 years, but part of me still wonders...  Clem did have that whole backstory with the Coleridges, and the character was named after Claire Labine's then husband; that seems like more attention than a minor, supporting character might get.  Anyway, he seemed like a good actor and that would have been much better than anything Faith did in the show's first year or so at the very least.

It also sucks that Alicia, in particular, didn't go onto more work—even after her breakout role on Falcon Crest (wasn't her character really popular?  I always meant to watch more of that show when it was airing on SoapNet, mostly because of her, but two episodes of RH a day plus whatever soaps I was still hanging onto in real time by then was already a lot to keep up with).  From her credits, it seems like she was almost back to square one in terms of casting once that role ended, even after overcoming heaven knows how many barriers to get to that point.

Catherine Hicks' candor was a bit surprising, at first, but then not too surprising the more I thought about it.  I can see how this was a thankless role for her, but she was still my favorite Faith by a mile.  That's cool that she and Alicia and Kristen were friendly on the set.

Edited November 4, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[safe]

It's certainly possible. Of course in those original bible notes  for 'A Rage to Love'  that Totally Kate got her hands on said after Jack and  Mary ---and Pat and Faith --- break up they were putting Jack and Faith together.   Pat and Faith were to break up because Faith wanted marriage and Pat didn't  and we know 1975 Jack didn't want marriage either ---but perhaps early rough drafts versions of Jack he wasn't anti-marriage. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by safe

[DeliaIrisFan]

My memory must be playing tricks on me - I thought Jack and Jill were the ones who were supposed to get together while Jack and Mary were on the outs.  They had a history prior to the start of the show, I recall.

[DeliaIrisFan]

The whole ABC lineup (that still had affiliate clearance) briefly hit the top of the ratings that summer.  They all probably benefited from GH and the Ice Princess being the marquis act for the network - and, I suspect, further attrition for their timeslot competitors (I have not heard of anything memorable that the scabs at the other networks wrote that summer).  Arguably, RH at that time may have been a better fit for the audience that was waiting to see Luke and Laura than it would have been at any point previously, but I doubt that spillover would have been sustainable no matter what the show did next.

[safe]

I have wondered if Jill didn't exist in the early planning stages.

Here is what Totally Kate ---webmaster of TotallyKate! The Official Website pf Kate Mulgrew---wrote on the Soapnet board

 

3/15/08

by TotallyKate

A few years ago I happened to acquire from eBay notes about the original casting and storyline for Ryan's Hope. I had forgotten what was in it until I came across it last week when I was looking for something else.

In the original bible for 'A Rage to Love', Mary has gone to the police academy to follow in the footsteps of her big brother, Frank. Frank is still a policeman and he and his partner, Saul, are involved in a case with mob connections. Saul dies and then Frank is found at the bottom of the hospital steps. Frank eventually dies and Bob Clancey (last name was changed to Reid) and Mary investigate his death as they don't believe it was an accident. Mary "quits" the police force and goes undercover taking a job at the hospital. Jack does not agree with Mary risking her life by going undercover and this breaks up the relationship that has already developed between them. Jack then starts a relationship with Faith, although both he and Mary love each other. Faith was involved with Pat but that relationship broke up after Faith wanted marriage and Pat didn't. Jack's relationship with Faith of course is wonderful for the widow Delia who wants Pat back. So everyone seems to be without the person they really love which makes for many hours of wanting them to get back to the one they love.

Of course many aspects of the storyline changed drastically by the time "Ryan's Hope" made it on the air. It's interesting to note though that a lot of these original storyline ideas either ended up as backstory for the characters or as future storylines, such as the police academy and Siobhan.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by safe

[DRW50]

I can see what you mean, but when I think of moments I enjoyed with Mary or Pat, or even Siobhan, it's down to the actors and their charisma, rather than my seeing the characters as being well-fortified. I don't think, say, Pat was any worse when John Blazo took over - I actually liked his Pat a great deal - but he didn't have what Malcolm Groome had for viewers, so when they gave his Pat such flat storylines, Blazo got the blame. 

[Khan]

I could be wrong, but I've always had the impression that Claire Labine held her nose when it came to writing the Michael/Kimberley/Rae and Seneca/Kimberley/Rae storylines.  They might have been the kind of salacious "boilerplate stories" that ABC had wanted, but they weren't at all the kinds of stories that Labine & Paul Avila Mayer had envisioned for their show.

[DRW50]

I think you're right, although in that strike consequences article in SOD from somewhere in the late '90s or so Labine did praise the Rae/Michael pairing. 

[Chris 2]

Catherine Hicks has always been positive when reminiscing about RH. She still is, but she’s not pretending it was all sunshine and lollipops either. I really appreciated her candor. And yes, she’s the best Faith.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Oh, wow, I think I'd drifted away from the SoapNet boards by then.  I don't think I ever read this before.  That is all so fascinating: different from what aired, of course, but also different from what multiple sources, some actually affiliated with the show, have said was in the original RH bible. 

I wonder if some of the details were intentionally fudged for the casting notes to avoid spoilers.  I really can't imagine Michael Levin's Jack with any of the Faiths (then again, going by all the cast members who said in the book they were shocked to learn his real age and had assumed Jack was supposed to be around 30, maybe they retooled that character a great deal once they cast Levin).  And even assuming both the Clem rumor was untrue and Kenneth Castle was unplanned filler they came up with to give Pat and Faith something to do after Frank didn't die, I tend to think Bucky and Pat alone would have been enough to keep Faith occupied that first year or two with Delia as her chief antagonist.

Edited November 5, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan