Dynasty Discussion Thread

[All My Shadows]

Really enjoying all of the Dynasty conversation! I really only have two main points:

- I will die on this hill. It's just Dynasty! Regardless of how deep it might've tried to be in the beginning, regardless of how far off the tracks it went, etc. it was a huge success for a reason! People wanted that mindless, senseless, campy foolishness, and Aaron and company delivered. No great characterization needed. The fashion, the one-liners, the slaps, the fights, the overwrought melodrama. It's okay for a show to give people just that, especially since there were plenty of other, more nuanced drama series on the air at the time.

- In my mind, Steven is bi, and I've been settled on that conclusion for years now. Clearly, it wasn't the intention of TPTB at the time, but knowing what I know and seeing what I see of people in their 20s and 30s, it makes more sense that him "forgetting he was gay" or "turning straight." He never turned straight - he had pairings with men all throughout the series. I think, more than anything, they wanted him in the mix of all the other "young" characters, and keeping him as 100% into men would have removed him from that. Had they wanted to erase him and/or his gayness, they honestly could have written him out as a result of Al Corley leaving, Adam arriving, or Claudia dying. He stayed through it all.

[j swift]

I agree with the idea that I've never been frustrated by Dynasty because it never took itself seriously.  At the time, they all seemed like cartoons, and so I never stopped to think about their motivations.  These days it feels perfect for TikTok nostalgia because I would rather consume the classic scenes than re-watch an entire season.  I could watch Dominique exclaiming that she "doesn't sleep in her clothes nor does [she] sleep with them" on an endless loop.  And I can forgive anyone clever enough to write "a marriage might not last, but an ex-wife is forever"  I mean, how can we seriously discuss the demise of a character unironically named Dex Dexter?

As far as Stephen's sexuality, it feels like wrong to interpret it in terms of our modern lives.  The character was created by a middle-aged straight couple who were probably less evolved in their understanding of a spectrum of sexual identity, frightened by the prospect of HIV, and inhibited by trying to appeal to a mass audience.  So, questioning whether Stephen was bisexual is like asking if Peppermint Patty was a lesbian.  It is a riddle without an answer because the writer's intentions could not have been informed by contemporary culture.

Edited November 16, 2023 by j swift

[kalbir]

When watching an Aaron Spelling show, whether its Dynasty or 90210 or Melrose, you have to watch with the mindset that its a product of its time and you're not going to get high emotional stakes character driven storytelling.

[Paul Raven]

To conclude Dynasty's ratings for the 86-87 season

It made a comeback in the second half of the season, winning its timeslot and fending off a possible challemge from Night Court.

However, the numbers were down and ABC decided not to risk another go round at 9pm as it was vulnerable. So Dynasty was moved to 10pm and the John Ritter 'Hooperman' and Dabney Coleman 'Slap Maxwell' were inserted @9. Dynasty now faced The Equalizer and St Elsewhere in 87/88 season.

Week 27

Dynasty  19.6/29 Magnum PI  15.9/25 Night  Court 16.6/25/ Tortellis 12.0/19

Week 28

Dynasty  16.3/25 Magnum PI 15.9/25 Night Court  rpt 15.8/24/ Tortellis 12.0/19

Week 29

 Dynasty  17.4/28 Magnum PI  11.2/18 Night Court  15.8/25/1 hr episode

Week 30

Spenser for Hire prempts Dynasty

Week 31

Dynasty  16.9/27 Magnum PI  rpt 12.0/19 Night Court  rpt 12.0/19/Easy Street  rpt 12.0/20

Week 32

 Dynasty  16.8/27 Magnum PI rpt  13.2/21 Night Court 14.9/24 /Easy Street  rpt 13.7/22

Week  33

Dynasty finale  17.8/29 Magnum PI  r 12,4/20 Night Court 15.2/25/Easy Street rpt 12.2/20

 

[kalbir]

Despite the comeback in the second half of the season, Dynasty still fell out of the Top 10, going from 7th in 1985/86 to 24th in 1986/87. Considering that Dynasty was #1 just two seasons earlier, that was a massive decline.

[Khan]

Believe me, as a diehard "Charlie's Angels"/"Hart to Hart" fan, I know that as well as anyone, lol.

If DYNASTY had started out as nothing more than mindless, campy entertainment, where outrageous fashions and even more outrageous one-liners took precedence over actual storytelling, then that would be one thing.  I'd accept the show for what it was and keep going.  As I've been saying all along, however, the first 1-2 seasons betray that notion.

In its' first year, at least, DYNASTY had much more substance to it than in the 7-8 years that followed.  There seemed to be a concerted effort on the part of its' writers to give characters some layers or dimensions, so that they weren't all good or all bad.  DYNASTY wasn't perfect - neither were KL or FC when they premiered - but it had potential.  All the show needed was a little more time and patience on the part of everyone involved in making it.

Unfortunately, I think the Shapiros, Aaron Spelling and ABC misunderstood the viewers and what they had responded to during the first season.  They thought the folks at home didn't care about the Blaisdels or the oil fields; I say, at the very least, the Shapiros and Aaron Spelling didn't do enough to MAKE them care.  Their hearts weren't totally in the casting or writing of those characters.  As a result, those elements were left vulnerable to being phased out in the second year.

Moreover, the producers dialed up the glamour and fantasy, because they thought that's all viewers wanted to see every week.  I say glamour and fantasy are fine, as a way into the show.  However, the producers assumed glamour and fantasy had to come at the expense of character; when, in fact, it's the characters that KEEP the audience watching long after the glamour and fantasy have lost their charm.

[j swift]

Your second point gave me pause, because I hadn't considered the idea of being "made" to care.  I appreciate when a discussion about a forty-year-old show can spark new ideas.

The contrast of the have and have-nots was missing on Dallas, so Dynasty had an opportunity to respond to the culture, but I also agree that Aaron Spelling and the Shapiro's prior work did not bode well for that type of storytelling.

Perhaps, the emphasis on glitz and glamour negated the need for an audience surrogate to wag their finger and articulate that wealth doesn't always lead to happiness?  Because when Alexis is sitting in a jail cell in a red ballgown, we don't need another character to deride her life choices or remind us to value simplicity.

Edited November 16, 2023 by j swift

[SFK]

I think you need a strong, spunky have-not to make it work. It's okay to have a Claudia in the family, but Matthew and Lindsay were drips. That's why I liked Walter and I think he would have worked as a surrogate patriarch had the show stuck with the Blaisdels. His fire and craftiness worked well up against the Carrington/Colby set. You need your have-not to be a Cliff Barnes or a Richard Channing, even a Dex Dexter with his robust energy. And your Lindsay needs to be more Lucy Ewing.

[Khan]

Played by actors who were drips.

I would have cast someone like Gil Gerard as Matthew.  (That is, if Gil Gerard were available.  He was probably still busy with "Buck Rogers" at that point).  If not him, then maybe James Brolin.  I also would have recast Lindsay in season two with Heather Locklear instead of bringing her on as Sammy Jo.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Khan

[Chris 2]

Katy Kurtzman has said she can’t watch he performances as Lindsay - she was at an awkward age and she said she hated the choices she made as an actor. I can’t imagine watching my fifteen year old self on film.

Bo Hopkins was just miscast. Agree that someone like Gil Gerard would have been better.

[j swift]

Ugh and the feeble attempt to give Lindsey an emotionally driven story in season 1 was equally painful.  What teen cares that much if their parents got married because they were pregnant?  It always makes the soap kid seem dumb when they can't do the math about the timing of their conception and their parent's anniversary.

But, it would've been very soapy to SORAS her after the crash and have her return as Heather Locklear.  Good thinking @Kane Given that once Sammy Jo had Danny, her connection to Krystal was unnecessary to keep her in the story.  Lindsay could've played out the exact same plot.

Edited November 17, 2023 by j swift

[Soapsuds]

Lindsay was a horrible character played by an awful actress.

[All My Shadows]

I think fashion and glamor is exactly what the viewers wanted to see every week. It went to #1 for a reason, and the steady fall from the top in the second half of the show’s run is no great tragedy. Nine seasons, 200+ episodes, a perpetual seat at the pop culture table, etc. It’s not the show Rich and Esther had in mind in the beginning (my mind will never not hear Esther’s passionate defense of their I, CLAUDius inspiration), but it wasn’t a failure.

[Khan]

If the Shapiros had cast a more charismatic actor to play Matthew:

1) they wouldn't have needed to kill him off between seasons; and

2) they wouldn't have needed to introduce Dex later on, as Matthew could have fit that bill. 

If Gil Gerard had been cast, for example, his Matthew could have become involved with Alexis, thereby setting up a triangle between the two of them and Claudia.  And if Heather Locklear had been a Lindsay recast, Alexis could have become both her stepmother and her mother-in-law.

[Soaplovers]

Season 2 proved that the show could have focused on the rich and famous.. and still had strong characters/plots.

Claudia's emotional and mental decline that played out throughout season 2 was so well done.. and it climaxed at the start of season 3 as an effective red herring when Little Blake was kidnapped.

Krystal vs Alexis was very effective in season 2 with the two correctly sizing one another up and being more subtle in their battle.  Their catfight in season 2 was effective because there was motivation behind it (Alexis causing Krystal's miscarriage).

Sammy Jo was an effective Have not element... but I do agree that maybe Heather Locklear should have been a recast Lindsay... who would have gone after Steven romantically for revenge because she blamed him for breaking up her parents marriage.  And her schemes against Krystal in later seasons would have been effective had she been Lindsay.

Season 3 did have potential stories that were more emotionally deep.. but you could see the show veering toward the over the top tropes.

You had Adam coming on as the kidnapped son of Alexis/Blake, the introduction of Joseph's daughter Kirby (the have not element), and I do remember one heart felt scene between Krystal and Alexis once it came out that Steven was alive.

Sadly.. Steven was miscast, Adam became a creepy rapist, and Kirby was sweet.. but lacked agency.