I keep reading that everyone's unhappy with AMC right now, myself included. I watched the show from birth til around 2001 and I am saddened by what this once great show has become.

I flipped it to AMC the other day during DAYS commercial break and my mom (who stopped watching the show around 1996) didn't know hardly any of the characters. (she's not internet savy) She kept asking who everyone was. Here's our actual conversation....

"Oh there's Julia. I guess she finally got out of witness protection? Where's Noah? Is he still there? What about Edmund & Maria, Dimitri, Janet & Trevor, Arlene, Liza?"

-They not on the show anymore Mom.

"Well then where's Brooke, Joe & Ruth, Marion & Stuart, Opal & Palmer?

-They don't write for them anymore Mom

"That's a shame, Better turn it back to DAYS or were gonna miss something"

I think the reason everyone (I am) is so unhappy with the show is because it's lost it's identity? The characters who made the show such a force to be reckoned with in the 80's and 90's have all but disappeared from the canvas, replaced with SORAS'ed kids and Newbies. And it didn't happen gradually. Of all the soaps, AMC is in the worst shape. Even worse than Passions, because at least they have kept their core characters intact since Day one, and hasn't lost their indentity.

If a viewer who hasn't watched AMC in five years flipped it to the show, they wouldn't recognize 80% of the characters on the canvas. I think the writing and characters equally important. If you have recognizable characters in a badly written story, viewers will usually stick it out. When you have bad writing and unrecognizable characters it's a formula for disaster.

Give Brooke a big juicy story, Bring Palmer and Opal to the front burner, Give Ruth or Joe a health related story, and ratings will slowly rise, and people will tune back in.

It seems like a no brainer, but evidentally McT and/or Frons just don't get it?

Thoughts?

The Writing, The Characters, Or Both?

It's a huge combo but I really hold Frons and his pushing of younger characters as the big one. Like or hate McT--as others have said she does and WILL write for the vets. She was HUGE even in her disastrous late 90s stint, for stories like bringing Marian and Stuart together (I knwo some fans were upset she dropped that character who had kidnapped Maddie as Stuart's interest but the Marian pairing was brilliant) etc etc. It's been clear that in this regime some stories were started involving Brooke and others and for various reasons were quickly nixed.

I don't think the characters have changed in the past ten years as much as on some soaps--but then AMC is the only one I've watched nearly every day even at it's worse so so the changes are more gradual. Still look at One Life to Live (then again One Life to Live hasn't had as central a steady identity from its inceptions till now as AMC has--witness the 80s Dallas meets Sci Fi years etc) and some others. But The identity did change fast and I blame it starting with Passanante's stint when Agnes Nixon quit her brief coheadwriting bit around 2000...

I wish ABC/Frons would realize the best way to market AMC would be as thier signature "traditional multi generational" soap and NOT the "MTV soap"

E

The influx of newbies is a recent problem (a few months), but even the long-term characters who are shown, Erica, Jack, Tad, Dixie, Adam, & David have had their entire personalities rewritten. For example, Dixie is now a self-centered shrew, Erica supported serial killer Jonathan's marriage to Lily and doesn't care how horribly Ryan treated Kendall, Adam allowed Krystal to trick him into marriage. To me, that has been far worse than this summer's newbies.

That's a good point (and of course the character changes are lagrely often done to support newbie characters or forced plot points). ALthough I personally think Adam somewhat allowing himself to be trapped by Krystal is pretty classic

E

It's true that AMC is flooded with new characters and they disposed of a lot of AMC history (aka Edmund, Maria, Liza, etc) but the question is if these characters were still on the canvas would your mother have been able to recognize these characters as the same people she once knew and loved? Edmund was a completely different person before he died and MMT chose to write him so far out of character that viewers that spent YEARS loving Edmund were stunned by the completely unrecognizable man that plotted against Maria the way he did. Those characters that are still on canvas are suffering at the pen of MMT. Is Adam even remotely the dashing and ruthless businessman that we we love or love to hate? No! He's some neutered shell of a man that isn't actually in control of his own business, family or life. Adam always made mistakes but he was always in control. Now he's Krystal's lap dog, even going so far as to support what she wants or Babe wants over JR. uh uh...no. Not Adam. This is podAdam and I'm not very fond of him. Derrick, who is a day player at best, is not the savy cop with a heart of gold. He's a joke and has absolutely NO PERSONALITY at all!!! JR is a broken record and has lost all of his edge by repeating the same scenes over and over again. blah blah blah...Erica is a bystander in her own storyline and spends most of her screen time propping up Ryan when he shouldn't have been forgiven by the diva fir the havoc he caused to her family.

No, it's bad writing and it needs to stop before MMT writes Pine Valley OUT of existence!!!

The actors and characters that got out- well, it was a blessing in disguise. I am LOATHING the return of Bianca just because I don't want to see yet another one of my favorite characters at the mercy of this horrible writer!!!

Well there are so many factors that play into it - but this summer, there are too many newbies and they aren't writing for the vets which sucks.

Unfortunately you and your mom caught a bad episode, as everyone on that show was added from 2003-present (except Julia, Adam, and Jack).

I think if you turn on Monday's special 9/11 episode, your mom will recognize many more faces....Myrtle, Palmer, Erica, Marian, Stuart, etc.

It just sucks bc AMC could be sooo much better right now than it is, but I really think Frons has a vision for the ABC soaps that isn't the same vision as all the long-time fans. Thus, we're pissed bc we don't see what we want to see.

It's bad writing all the way! I can tolerate characters being written OOC if it was on occassion, but with the hack it's constantly.

Not one single storyline on the show right now makes any sense at all. NOTHING

The newbie influx this Summer has been particularly large and in case of the two most prominent ones, Colby and Sydney, particularly strident. But I've come to expect some level of Teen demo inanity every Summer and typically the inanity doesn't go over well longterm with the audience and the characters not worth their salt fall away after a time. So it bugs, but I don't get too uptight about it.

The writing, however is a years long problem now and the others are correct, were you and your mom to see the characters you miss (and associate with AMC's identity), you wouldn't recognize them if and when they did/do appear, In some ways, I'd rather not see my faves written for AT ALL by The Destroyer. I can't bear to watch Kendall or Erica any more.

Most all characters were newbies at one point or another, but the difference in telling their stories, the writing. Look at some of the recent incredibly popular characters that came wtih influxes of newbies, Gillian, Greenlee, Leo, etc. they all went on to have wondeful stories over the years and become characters that we rooted for. That was all the writing. Writing that gave these actors a chance to shine. Writing that was true to these people and what there pasts were supposed to be, what their history with family members, if there was any, was supposed to be. Their stories were more then just written to get them on our screens, and get their clothes off...they were crafted to be a lasting part of PV, crafted to be characters that we can root for. I love a good newbie. Hell, David was a newbie, who I've come to adore, who I even gave up on another man for Erica for. It's not the newbies the fans don't like. It's the stories that are written for them, IMO. Give me a vet with a good story, playing opposite some newbie with a wonderful story, and I'd be quite happy.

Ie. MMT and Fronsie seem to think that Colin taking his shirt off, and flexing his muscles is going to make up for the fact that Josh is a walking fetus who's very existence spits in the face of everything that AMC stands for. They think shirt off, muscles flexing, equals storyline.

Me, not so much.

Give me a vet with a good story, playing opposite some newbie with a wonderful story, and I'd be quite happy.

Kylie ~~ I agree with you 100%. Did any of us care for Amanda when she was running around Pine Valley acting like a tramp? No. But when her mother returned and the viewers saw what kind of life she had growing up with a mentally ill mother, many opinions changed about her.

When Crishelle Stause was paired with Kate Collins, the improvement in her acting was remarkable, and now she seems to hold her own with so many others on AMC when given a decent storyline.

Ooo ya Crishelle is w wonderful example, ITA. Amanda has become a favorite of mine now where as before when she was the town matress.

Vincent Irizarry is another example of that. Any David fan will tell you (and if they deny this they're not a true David fan) that had AMC not paired him and David with Susan Lucci/Erica, I don't believe that David would still be around. Until Erica David was written very one dimensional, something everyone knew the character needed to be viable. And they didn't just give him gray scales one day, they crafted a brilliant storyline tod do so. He was so very black and white. She gave him gray shades, what every newbie/character needs.

It isn't how the newbies look. Or even how they act (Crishelle and Colin have been improved drastically). It's what kind of storyline AMC gives them, and how that storyline is written.

I think its a combination of everything.

The writing: Even if my faves are not getting a story, the writing can sometimes draw me in. GH for example, I have basically no characters that I love and tune in for every day to see...but some of the stories keep me interested. If the writing could at the very least make sense, I could possibly watch AMC.

The characters: Too many blows for me in one year. I mean...they recast Reggie with Sean...that's just an example and the last straw. The fact that Palmer, Opal, Brooke and Derek have been thrown to the wayside is another thing...and now, I've watched Lily get story after story but they found it hard to write for Danielle and Reggie most of the time...puhleeze...can't take it.

The lies: They lie constantly, how many times have they mentioned Brooke's story and yet the story turns out to be 2 days of airtime and that's it.

The newbies: Some of the newbies, I could accept...Colby and Jamal...I can accept them. I can understand them coming back being SORASED. Annie, Terry, Sydney, Sean...no...I don't understand, nor care about them. There's a list of pseudo newbies that can hit the road to and that consists of Di, Del, Josh and Erin.

Adding up all of the cons, AMC is unwatchable and I'm not sold on the fact that a new writer will change anything.

I think its a combination of everything.

The writing: Even if my faves are not getting a story, the writing can sometimes draw me in. GH for example, I have basically no characters that I love and tune in for every day to see...but some of the stories keep me interested. If the writing could at the very least make sense, I could possibly watch AMC.

The characters: Too many blows for me in one year. I mean...they recast Reggie with Sean...that's just an example and the last straw. The fact that Palmer, Opal, Brooke and Derek have been thrown to the wayside is another thing...and now, I've watched Lily get story after story but they found it hard to write for Danielle and Reggie most of the time...puhleeze...can't take it.

The lies: They lie constantly, how many times have they mentioned Brooke's story and yet the story turns out to be 2 days of airtime and that's it.

The newbies: Some of the newbies, I could accept...Colby and Jamal...I can accept them. I can understand them coming back being SORASED. Annie, Terry, Sydney, Sean...no...I don't understand, nor care about them. There's a list of pseudo newbies that can hit the road to and that consists of Di, Del, Josh and Erin.

Adding up all of the cons, AMC is unwatchable and I'm not sold on the fact that a new writer will change anything.

Right on! :

It's true that AMC is flooded with new characters and they disposed of a lot of AMC history (aka Edmund, Maria, Liza, etc) but the question is if these characters were still on the canvas would your mother have been able to recognize these characters as the same people she once knew and loved? Edmund was a completely different person before he died and MMT chose to write him so far out of character that viewers that spent YEARS loving Edmund were stunned by the completely unrecognizable man that plotted against Maria the way he did.

While there's a lot of truth to what you say--I think Edmund was destroyed already by Rayfield the year before when he did things like had Maureen LOCKED UP and *drugged* etc... AWFULness all around.

I recently found on youtube a clip of early Dimitri stuff from 92--aroudn when Is tarted watching. I loved that whole gothic story--the Jane Eyre wife in the attic all of that. And Megan helped write the story (even if she did largelyc opy the 79 Courtland story). I wish we could get stuff like that now

This isn't really related--but I'm not sure James M as Palmer could handle a full story--a while back he was in poor health and he seems to be doing better now but

I believe AMC's troubles began years ago first with the writing...but now that issue has snowballed completely to result in an extremely poor product being produced that in no way resembles what it had been for decades.

An emphasis on young characters is not always a bad thing. As a matter of fact, although for the most part AMC has always been multigenerational, remember that it was AMC and Y&R that in the 70's placed a heavy emphasis on young people. Although Y&R pretty much left all that behind by the 80's , classic AMC has always been a combination of a few basic yet powerful themes: young love, social revelance, and a strong sense of American values and community.

Notice how none of those themes are being presented in the sorry sack of "drama" we see now. The overall tone of the program is one of one sleazy gimmick or "shocking twist" after another. The show is dark and concentrates on the darker natures of people. No longer can the average viewer identify in any real way with the characters...watching classic AMC used to fill a faithful viewer with hope and enlightenment along with entertainment. Watching the show now turns my stomach, disgusts me, and makes me wonder how I could be better spending my time.