Vee

That just feels like forcing Lois into the already staid framework of the current show to me. I'd rather build new things out including a place for her - entertainment businesses on soaps can be tricky to depict but we don't need to see her making music or whatever to make something work. It's not like I'd be brokenhearted if Aurora, etc. went away to make room.

I always questioned bringing Lois back if you couldn't put her with Ned, but the fact is it's done, she's here and Rena is still very good when given half a scrap of vaguely passable material. So if she's happy being here and wants to continue the least they can do is write good story for her and find a new role for her on canvas that makes Lois have a real purpose and direction. It would be a huge waste to let her go when there are at least 10-15 characters far more ready for dropping. Gregory Harrison was very hot in the '80s, but I just find Benjamin Franklin Gregory boring to watch for extended periods. Yes, he's an austere fellow and has a bit of chemistry with Tracy but his storyline and family just hold no lasting interest for me.

I think that just had to do with the ATWT connections behind the scenes. Goutman for example (sigh) was directing on the show IIRC. I couldn't fault them for hiring solid acting alumni though; I felt it was important to keep up the NYC soap connections including old P&G hands. I couldn't stand the late Marnie Schulenberg as Alison on ATWT but she was actually very good in a supporting role as David's scheming TV producer Jo Sullivan - I didn't even recognize her, she was so bubbly. And I thought Seganti was appropriately creepy as a troublemaking lothario in the storyline with Kelley Missal, which really worked for me. I hoped the PP shows might mine deeper East Coast reserves in future like Maureen Garrett, Lisa Brown (again, RIP), etc. Sadly that wasn't to be. Anyway, there were issues with the show but those actors weren't the issues for me. But we are once again wildly afield and that's my fault. Hopefully we'll get a proper casting, etc. announcement soon to guide our way. Or ghostwritten scripts.

They were definitely throwing random things at the wall at that show at times, but I don't think that's really what happened there. The show just got canned quickly due to BTS mismanagement right as the storyline's contours were finally revealing itself; I suspect Corbin Bleu's character being a mole for Raines and the conspiracy was there from the beginning, as Jeffrey King was Racina's idea. Raines (who was never very good at much but playing a mustache-twirling baddie anyway, so it was a decent enough role for him) simply came in at the wrong moment right as the money ran out. Just as the simmering umbrella plot came into focus the show was over.

Were we not wildly afield as is here is where I would say someone online needs to pick Thom Racina's brain about his stormy OLTL 2.0 tenure which he has been kind but very circumspect about, and which near the end revealed the underpinnings of a classic Racina-style mystery/conspiracy arc with Corbin Bleu, Ron Raines' eleventh-hour character, Barbara Garrick's Allison Perkins, etc. But I digress even more, so that is a discussion for the OLTL thread or somewhere else.

No, I think you might be right about it being a fan error. I cannot see ABC putting Fitzpatrick on another show when they dumped him from AMC.

I remember being surprised by the James Fitzpatrick claim too, as IIRC he was fired from AMC abruptly after allegedly pawing a fan or a waitress in Vegas or something.

'Scott Holroyd', he said with reluctance.

Nothing.

Yeah, Ava's only true currency is as an outsize villain. That's always been what she's best at and she's still an asset to the show in that role IMO. Can she run longer before getting killed off or sent to prison for awhile? I think she can - since she hasn't burnt through villain story as fast as, say, Alex Olanov on OLTL who still lasted a full 6 years after going psycho (and did it without wearing out her welcome because she kept changing roles and partners, plus there was a lot of comedy) - but I wouldn't spend another 2-3 years to get there from here. I heard a different version of the story than what was recently mentioned here by someone - the way I recall Ron and Frank telling it at the time, they were only expecting to have Maura onscreen for a few days tops as Ava in 2013 to intro Kiki and NuFranco to the show. This idea of such a star cameo kind of boggles the mind to me and makes me wonder where they intended to leave the character originally.

Sounds about right. On a side note: We know that Rauch hired Laura Bonarrigo and launched the Bo/Cassie pairing, but I do wonder what made Gottlieb gravitate towards bringing back Sarah Gordon. The (admittedly apocryphal) online story used to go that Jensen Buchanan came to visit her friends at the show and Gottlieb had no idea who she was, which miffed Buchanan and made a recast necessary; however, this is likely impossible since Jensen started at AW in June or July of '91 IIRC, unless these events all happened very fast BTS. I actually really like what I've seen of Grace Phillips in the role, but there was a personality conflict BTS with Gottlieb and I believe it led to Phillips spending a good portion of '92 offscreen until coming back for a day or two to get killed off. What a quick change.

No, that's pretty damn good and about what I thought, thank you. When was the Loon Lake remote chaos with Alex and Cassie? I was under the impression that was the last of Rauch but I'm not sure.

Oh, I'm not endorsing it lol. I just am speculating.

I'm not going to post it but Olivia Nuzzi - always a socialite friend to white supremacists like Milo, etc. - is out there sounding like Steve Bannon, crowing that 'establishment media' have nor reported on Biden's infirmity enough. She seems to have forgotten she writes for New York Magazine. Every Very Online media talking head keeps running around frenzied saying 'no one is talking about/acknowledging this,' when in reality every major media outlet has been pushing it for months. What they mean is that they wanted Biden's age to be the story they could run on to handicap him, and they're frustrated the party and its voters haven't really accepted it or abandoned him. There's not going to be a primary challenge. There's not going to be anyone else because the majority of Dem voters don't want what the media wants. And while this has been beyond infuriating to watch, as I said before this is also all a bit too early and Biden is not Clinton. And we've got over eight months to go.

We've had this discussion a few times over the years, but it's becoming more relevant recently for potential availability reasons: Does anyone have a clear fix on exactly when Michael Malone and Josh Griffith began writing in '91, even if their names weren't immediately on the end credits? I know Jason Webb came in in mid-late August working on the Banner loading dock with Kevin, and Jason was a Gottlieb addition; she explicitly hired Mark Brettschneider herself. I've also heard that the new creative team abruptly shifted the trajectory of the Heinrich Kaiser, etc. con man story with Cord and Tina they apparently inherited, creating Cain Rogan for Christopher Cousins via a quick change in the plotline. And Susan Batten we know came on as Luna in September, followed by (I think) Robert Krimmer and Mia Korf as Andrew and Blair in October. The online data on dates is often unreliable on this stuff, and the available end credits aren't always on top of the changes (ghostwriting, contracts, whatever). I suspect it was in August '91 but I'd like to try and pinpoint the timing for reference soon. Being able to view this period as it happens would be invaluable.

I do think there's a chance they've also been chumming the waters for Sonny and Ava to hook up again, as some have mentioned. A lot of people would say 'oh no, he'd never go there again after Connie, A.J. etc' but I remember how close Sonny came to fúcking Faith Rosco, who he never had nearly as functional a relationship with as Ava (who he should regard as an enemy the same as Faith tbh). When Sonny is down bad enough, bipolar or on his ego/pity trip he'll fúck anything. Avery is living proof of that.

I'll admit I have a different tolerance level for Toadie and Terese as a newbie having never seen them with others. It's an odd couple, but the engagement and focus on the mutual adjustment for both of them to very different personas/professional lives and the tension with the kids is interesting to me (so far).

Already renewed:

We've been saying it for a few years now but yes, all this. It seems like the writing actively attempts to keep all popular characters friendly with each other to appease what they feel is their remaining audience lol. So conflict dies too quickly: Ava slaughtered Connie as part of a cover-up to establish a rival empire to Sonny's, yet because they want to keep Maura West she's chummy with Sonny and now Carly. Ava and Nina are BFF despite their very dark history, which I can at least forgive because the show has acknowledged that strangeness. And Carly, Sam and Elizabeth are all good.

The recast is just comical. I can't take anything done with him seriously because of the actor choice, nor do I care about Jagger returning period.

I just never realized they went through like 3-4 Pierce Dormans over what, 3 years? I had no idea he debuted in either '94 or '95. He was totally forgettable to me until they poached Tuc Watkins from OLTL. What was Labine even doing with him?

It's a long eight months. People are going to get tired of that script, and a lot more is going to happen out there. I have always been fairly certain he will win. I still am. I fear the election itself a lot less than I do enduring this entire year of hell as an cycle, the fallout from it and simply taking the risk at all.

I don't know anyone but Biden who can run and win this race. If there was someone else I'd consider it, but there isn't and I'm fine with him doing it. I don't accept the Beltway frame where the whining media demanded someone else run out of boredom and then claimed 'everyone' in America or in the party wants him to bow out, which just isn't true. They cherrypick polls and lean on the Very Online for that take, and as always it doesn't reflect actual reality or the climate in the party. Then their idea of 'Democratic' pundits is usually far left burnouts or 'disruptors' who never got over the Bernie primaries like the Cracked guy, Will Stancil, that nut Jeet Heer, etc. Or Dean Phillips! Being interviewed as a guy with his finger on the pulse! And then they act like this is the voice of the party. In any event, once again I feel this furor is coming a bit too early for them to make it last. We've got 8+ months to go.