Vee

Crossposted: Mark Dobies (OLTL, GL) has passed away.

Mark Dobies (OLTL, GL) has passed away.

Donna, you are wearing fanbase goggles. The rest of us talking (accurately) in this thread about how they have marginalized Elizabeth's children as characters has nothing to do with Carly or Jason or warring Jason fanbases. And no, people being annoyed with more overexposed story for Carly - even people who have enjoyed Carly in the past, as I am pretty sure caroline has and I certainly have - does not make them inherently Carly haters or fans of Liason/Jiz/whatever anyone want to call the couple. Stop thinking you're still on Twitter. Nobody here cares how those lunatics talk to each other on there. We don't want a lesson from you. We're not going to be educated about it, and it still would not make it acceptable to talk to DRW that way as though he was someone from one of your rival fanbases. I know this is difficult for you to accept when you keep regularly challenging the admin's own posts critiquing your behavior, but you have zero position of authority here. (And neither do I, because if I did you'd be banned years ago but that doesn't mean we aren't going to stick up for each other.) Step back and chill out.

I don't think either will ever happen again. I think the show increasingly seems to resent having to bring back Laura's kids and do Lucky/Liz, neither Alexa nor JJ are being used well enough AFAIC. But I also can't see FV going back to Jason/Liz unless he was somehow desperate to find some last ditch attempt to justify the continued Steve Burton expenditure. And I think he'd sooner bring on anyone else for Steve.

Nobody here is part of the idiotic Jason fanbase wars on Twitter where they all spam the hashtag in favor of their favorite couples and no one here is using the word "Jizzer" in common parlance. It is insulting to talk down to a longtime poster accusing them of being a rabid Jason/Liz fan just because they're accurately noting the show has de-prioritized Liz's sons while somehow making this about the Carly storyline none of us were talking about. You are not on Twitter and we are not your little friends. Just take the L.

Donna, stop fúcking talking to people like that.

I suspect it's true the network insisted they age him up/hire an older actor after he came out because they feared right wing blowback. It's also likely why we never got those Laura coming-out scenes this time last year that PM allegedly wrote (when a selection of teens were still in the role). But yes, if it were up to me Aiden would be 10-13 for another few years lol.

All true. I badly wanted Luke and Alexis together for a bit in the late '90s.

Exactly.

Fair enough, that whole period is a bit of a fog for me. Regardless, they did play it under JFP a bit too and I always found it embarrassing. (Not dissimilar to Mac and Alexis, and I say that as someone who loves Mac but there is a tier he can play in - now Labine leading man Mac, I might've bought it.)

I did not know that. '03 got pretty ridiculous. I think Jill had power as a line producer and in terms of getting her hand in re: certain elements of production or even advocating for people (like Vanessa), but creatively I saw zero evidence of her major hand again on story or any serious casting until the strike in '08, when suddenly the show turned into mid-90s GL starring Rick Hearst. That's just me though.

The story about Jill and Sarah having a screaming match came out when she first left, so I never bought her claiming otherwise. I thought she was just being politically savvy at the time. I don't think the divorce itself finally went through until JFP and Megan were there. I remember the soppy montage over it IIRC, which was amateur night by GH's prior Guza/Labine/Riche standards at that time. I think Jill went so far as to tease Laura with poor jilted Mac briefly which, give me a break. I always thought actually signing the papers was a terrible mistake too. I have to assume the reason they didn't pull the trigger on putting LNL back together in 2000 - the obvious point, as you said - is either because Tony and Genie were dragging their feet, because of the BTS turmoil with Riche and Guza or both. I fully expected the reunion then. By the time Megan and Jill hastily did it, scurrying to keep their jobs in early '02, it was cartoonish and comical (Sally Struthers, etc.) with none of a fraction of the depth of the Riche regime. I wanted them back together but didn't buy the material.

The issue with Brent/Marion is much more about optics than its actually attacking transgender people, which it didn't at the time. But the fact is its story at the outset is you have a guy who has been set up as a serial sexual predator and rapist dressing up as a frumpy, ugly woman and getting a kinky thrill out of terrorizing, victimizing, etc. heterosexual cisgender women, making them think they have STIs, potentially trying to take advantage of them again, etc. That all plays into old stereotypes of 'crossdressing freaks,' deviants, etc. and all goes to transphobia in the light of today. I don't think Psycho or Brian De Palma's Dressed to Kill, for example, are transphobic, I still enjoy and value those films a lot. But I can see the argument in terms of what they have done negatively to trans visibility due to their prominence in media. Doesn't mean I want to burn them from memory or cancel them. By contrast, the Brent/Marion story feels much more mean-spirited and overall exploitative. Transphobic? No. Tacky, nihilistic and dark, yes, and so I can reckon with its bigoted lens much more easily. It was absolutely Megan having a ball with the shocking visual of a 'crossdressing psycho.'

Stefan was still there. He was one of the dozens of characters wandering the underground corridors mumbling about the danger during Endgame. He left almost immediately after in late '01 (I think) with a reasonably happy ending to find a new life for himself away from all the Cassadine games, and had a happy goodbye with Nikolas, Alexis, etc. The show changes creative hands in spring-summer '02 as McTavish is fired, JFP is taken out of creative control and Guza returns with Pratt sporting an EP credit (which, as Megan herself said, ensured JFP could not control him after his wars with Riche). Guza then brought SN back opposite the also-returning Tyler Christopher in spring '03 to renew the Cassadine intrigues and sort of reinvigorate that sphere - a good idea I thought, but it quickly fell apart as Stefan became a cartoon villain and was dead before the end of the year. (I blame Pratt plotting on some of that - it got very primetime.) I don't remember Tony ever claiming Luke was sleeping around during the marriage until after the unfortunate '05 'reunion' none of us liked (nor apparently did Tony and Genie). Even that year he held LNL very sacred in press. I put it on Brian Frons much more than JFP (though JFP supporting that position would be no surprise). JFP had been largely disempowered at that point and if Frons had felt Vanessa was worth it she'd have stayed. He was that involved at ABCD at that time, based on all stories especially what has come out about AMC since. He didn't (IMO) because she wasn't a man.

I hated it and hated how Laura came off in that story - like a deluded, helpless invalid. Her brief 2008 return to tie the loose end of Luke and Laura up was far superior for both Genie and Laura, warts and all. JFP was largely creatively powerless after 2002, as she should've been. But you are right about her instincts. I'll never forget how she ran off Sarah and Amber.

No one ever will, nor should they IMO. It's obscure minutiae and only obsessive soap fans like us will ever know it exists.

Riding the rails wherever America needs her and struggling with the beast within, like Bill Bixby on The Incredible Hulk.

Chase is eminently disposable to me. I would simply have evil Willow seduce him to screw with the Qs, then expose it and off he goes.

I get it, but I also think it's dumb of her. You came on explicitly to play a homophobic controlling momager but you claim the material floored you? It is what it is.

Julianne Moore (Frannie/Sabrina, ATWT) and Meghann Fahy (Hannah O'Connor, OLTL) are starring in Netflix's miniseries Sirens with Kevin Bacon (Tim Werner, GL) and House of the Dragon's Milly Alcock in May.

Oh good lord. Anything to save JPS' job. IIRC that was explicitly not what happened onscreen - I believe in Mulcahey's script, Valentin explained his plan to Brennan at the time.

I don't remember much about it in Kim's book beyond summarizing various storylines and maybe enjoying working with Justin Deas.

lol, I am touched to see Tracy's fondness for Blair Cramer continues.

It's perfectly possible to redeem a homophobe. Many shows have done it. GH just doesn't want to because they decided to keep Eva LaRue and are too lazy to do anything but try to whitewash the character in the least nuanced or honest way possible. She barely ever expresses complex remorse and the instant Natalia got exposed for her beliefs the story became about how she was the victim. Cut to two months later and they want to pretend she's GLAAD Mom.

Just report it as the bigoted rhetoric it is. Not that anything will happen.