carolineg

I hated little Johnny. He had awful taste. He wanted Kellam to be his dad too. There were a few scenes of Josh/Don sparring over Marlena and other characters mentioning them "dating". How random. I can't say I am disappointed that didn't work out, although at least Marlena was in Josh's age range. Unlike Jessica lol. I wonder what a pairing between the two would have looked like. Not exciting from what I can tell...

I would assume there were plans to eventually reunite Don/Marlena? Until the whole Roman stuff took off. Don was hanging around Marlena through most of the Salem Strangler stuff, but I always thought Don was a horrible husband and they shouldn't reunite. Don is a character that doesn't hold up very well overtime with his sexist, condescending ideas about women. And that scene is just very uncomfortable. There is a pretty famous John/Marlena scene from the early 2000's where John carries Marlena against her will like a caveman through Salem Place!! and then seduces her basically against her will that I have always hated too and it was considered sexy. Gross. Also, neither here nor there, but why was Josh Fallon always around Marlena during both the rape and some of the Strangler stuff. Was the show testing them as a couple? It definitely seems that way, but I have never really heard anything to back that up. Josh just seems very invested in Marlena at the time.

I just watched that scene and it is disturbing. When she slaps him and he lifts his arm to hit her back and Marlena flinches expecting Don to hit her. And then Don throws her on the bed. Yuck. I don't know if I consider it rape. Marlena does respond back and I think Don would have stopped had she told him to. The whole scene is just so dysfunctional and toxic. And it clearly was something Marlena almost immediately regretted. I don't know. It definitely can be debated and it turned my off to that pairing forever. I watched through the Kellam rape and I was shocked how good Deidre Hall was. So free of the tics and gasping and moaning she does now. She was just great in that story.

Lol. I know Marlena was 40 for like 20 years, but Don was always the older man for her. They never were contemporaries so I don't think that's a problem. And I agree they tried to make her contemporaries with Hope, Kayla, Kim, etc, but she was still good friends with Laura/Maggie, so it's a toss up. They were pairing her with JM's Stefano who was basically Jed's age, so I don't think that was an issue.

i am thinking post-Wayne's Roman would have been perfect timing. Obviously JA was still willing to work soaps. I think even outside the Don/Marlena connection he could have been paired with quite a few women. They could have played on the Maggie stuff as well. I also think it would have added dimension to the Marlena/John/Kristen situation if Marlena was allowed a love interest outside of pining for John for 3 years. I know Mickey was the defacto lawyer, but it would have absolutely made sense for him to get outside help for cases (John's Aremid stuff would have actually been perfect) especially since him and Don were partners. And it's very odd JLB's Laura never had a love interest. You could easily have him interact with the young set too since he knew Carrie/Sami as kids. They could have brought a re cast Donna back too. Wasted potential.

Could you even imagine? Since no one has mentioned him since like 1983? Perfect. Total Ron. The last thing Marlena/Roman/John need is another wayward fake kid. On a separate note, I am surprised they never brought Don back. He would have been perfect in the 90's to help Mickey on one of his trials (Jack's maybe?) and as a secondary love interest for Marlena while John was with Kristen or even a love interest Kate, Laura, or Vivian.

Yes he was around with Roman. And then his mom came back and got custody I think. The reason Roman didn't want Marlena to get close to Carrie at first was because she just lost Johnny and he was afraid Anna would leave with Carrie and upset Marlena. I remember thinking Johnny was extremely obnoxious in all scenes. m Glad they shipped him off in favor of Carrie and future Roman/Marlena kids.

Fair, but Kristen would probably still be fooling John to this day without Marlena lol. Everyone was dumb under JER: Hope, Jen, Bo. The only people portrayed as smart were the villains. And Laura, who figured a bunch of stuff out but no one believed her because she was crazy. Not to get too far on a tangent, but one of the things I hated about JER is that his root for couples were at fault for the crazy. If John/Marlena, Hope/Bo, and Jack/Jen just acted like adults and told one another their feelings all of this would have been avoided. i get it's a soap, but it made everyone look extra dumb. Carrie/Austin were the only couple I can recall being fairly transparent about their feelings for one another to Sami.

I think Marlena was fine in the 80's. Still smart. I think the Tale of 2 Roman's made her look like an idiot, tbh. I mean, how did she not know John wasn't her husband Roman lol? She didn't realize they were different when they had sex lol? She was dumb under JER, but others (John/Austin) were worse. I still don't get the logic of keeping Kristen's secrets because of the stressful pregnancy. Wouldn't keeping all those secrets be just as stressful to Kristen? It never made any sense. Nor did the fact that John and Marlena nearly swooned at each other's mere presence for years, yet didn't realize they both felt the same about one another, but that's a whole other thread.

The Don/Marlena/Kellam stuff doesn't make sense to me. Why does Kellam need a shrink on his campaign staff? I get he has a thing for Marlena, but she has a real job lol. Don also seems to be constantly annoyed with Marlena which makes me dislike them as a couple. Thanks @beebs for the write up! I always enjoy them.

DJ's death had some really good acting from DH. Probably her best work. Marlena does talk about the death from time to time, although I think it's been years, but it's still in Marlena's story cannon, unlike her rape which is never discussed. She did really good work there as well. Also when Samantha died. DH can be really good. It's weird how she has devolved into moans and histrionics now. I think you can find all this stuff hidden on you tube, but it's a chore.

I hate to knock my girl when she's down but wtf is happening here? Lol. Hate this story

I am not sure that's it. I don't think Dee/Drake got into that comfort zone until the 2000's. They do have great chemistry from the jump though. Good casting, although Drake looks a lot younger than Marlena/Roman in 1986, but by like 1995 Deidre almost looks younger than him so whatever? I don't think they didn't allow themselves to not have chemistry with others (DH was pretty good with Kate), but I think Deidre did lose chem with Wayne in his return.

Completely switching subjects but I was watching early Jarlena stuff (1986) and Josh Taylor and Deidre Hall actually have decent chemistry as Chris and Marlena. I wonder why they have always had 0 as Roman and Marlena. It's not like JT really plays Roman differently than Chris.

Very true. I agree with @Soaplovers that Jo was more evenly matched to Amanda but I enjoyed Amanda/Alison much more. It was more central and a true rivalry, but at the same time a sort of love/hate thing. You know they actually really did care about one another even when they were at odds. Amanda delivered bitchy one liners the entire show, but it was always more significant with Alison. Maybe because it was the first Amanda rivalry, but I still think it was the best. But again, I like Alison. She was my fave, so I might be seeing things differently than others. Taylor and Lexi vs. Amanda was fine, but Amanda was always going to win that.

To be fair, in the 90's the Golden Globes nominated some random people in the lead actress category. Jane Seymour won for Dr. Quinn one year Heather was nominated. I really can't think of anything she did to merit any sort of award either, but I am sure she had some scenes. I am surprised as well though because I didn't think anyone took Melrose seriously lol. I always thought Daphne Zuniga was a pretty good actress as well as those you mentioned. Once that dynamic was removed Alison suffered a lot as a character. Amanda was bitchy to others, but Alison was her best rival by far.

I would have loved that. It just was never possible with CTS's very decent post-Melrose career. I would have taken a casual mention on screen that Billy/Alison were married. The show evolved in so many ways, but the core to me was always Billy/Alison ending up together for so them to just fade away was sad. From the first episode on that was endgame to me so it's weird it didn't happen at all.

Agree to disagree on the OG's. I felt like the writers stopped writing for them on purpose once they knew they were leaving. Alison absolutely could have broke up with Jake, went back to D&D, and been involved with Billy/Sam in season 6. Grant Show is very likable. He could have been paired with a newbie. Maybe Sam and make it a quad. Craig/Sydney were very good. The show could have expanded on that. I don't think any of the OG's were ever done, although I agree Jane in 7 was a bore. But then again I always thought she was boring so I may not be the best judge of that.

Yeah Melrose burned through so much in such a small time period. And there was so much bed hopping their wasn't a lot left for the original crew after season 5. I would have loved Alison to truly get her life together and have that dynamic with Amanda. With Alison, it always felt like the other shoe was going to drop and she would drink again. Realistic, but sort of sad for a soap character. Her ending just seems so pathetic-not CTS's last show-but the post-Alison mentions after. Hopefully Billy found her at some point and they are happily married lol. And let's all be honest: her role in Ally McBeal was lame af. I know it helped her career, but she honestly would have been better served just returning to MP.

I honestly didn't think the wheels fell off the show until season 5. In retrospect, it did have major problems in season 4, but I always chalked it up to the amount of story they burned through in seasons 2-3 and thought it was just a bad period the show would pull out of. Guess I was wrong. To me, the writing got worse, but the casting was a bigger issue. There was no one in the new cast that was much of a breakout star other than Taylor. I liked Rena Sofer, but I don't think that's a popular opinion around here lol.

ASJ was just woefully miscast. He was never a good actor, but at least Jagger was in his very limited wheelhouse of skills lol. Jack was supposed to be smart, intimidating, evil, etc. ASJ could play none of those things. I will never believe he could scare or outwit Amanda in any capacity or that they were ever married. They had no chemistry. Plus, again, way too young. I have no idea how close in age HL and ASJ are in real life, but ASJ was playing a teenager on GH months before. PM was miscast too. Both of these guys would have been okay if they played characters similar to what Austin/Jagger were, but they made both of them evil and, unlike Dan Cortese, they were just not capable of that. I wish Brooke would have lasted longer, but her death was awesome. She had potential if they moved her out of the Billy/Alison stuff. Bobby always creeped me out. I think it's JE because he was pretty good with Amanda/HL and his story was fine, but the actor always struck me as sleazy. I was fine when he left.

I understand what you are saying. I have trouble thinking there was any room for new characters in those earlier seasons with everything going on and the only character I remember thinking left too early was Brooke. She still had potential. I would assume Patrick Muldoon and ASJ would have lasted longer if they better characters and could act, since they both were coming off high profile daytime stints. Also, neither here nor there, but ASJ was totally miscast as Amanda's ex. He seemed way too young lol. I just think so many og characters leaving was slightly unexpected. I really don't think the producers thought they would lose 5-6 characters in a year or so and should have tried to keep at least Sydney (LL) and tried harder with Alison or Jake. I always considered Alison the central lead until about season 4, but she clearly wasn't. I think everyone would say that was Amanda. It's similar to 90210 where Brenda was the lead and then it became an ensemble. To me Alison was in a slightly higher tier than Jane or Jo even in later seasons, but that was just my perception. By season 5, it was clear there was little interest in Alison/Jake. I had no idea CTS/GS asked for that pairing or that they ever dated lol. I thought GS was dating LL at the time. And I am never sure when CTS/AS stopped dating, but obviously it's long over by season 5. That cast got around lol.

I think Alison's focus as a heroine was done by season 5. She was still a heroine, she was just no longer THE lead. The problem with the mass exodus is there was no root for, endgame couple. Without Jo/Jake or Billy/allison you are left with Amanda and Peter? Who weren't even really interacting much in any romantic sense until the very, very end of the show. The show was good about adding cast members until season 5 because the main crew grounded them. That had a lot of misses after the core group left. I think taylor and Kyle were the only 2 I even liked.

I want to say I can remember one scene where Olivia and Brenda talked about the Dante/Brenda baby , but I can't find it. Olivia and Sonny talked about Brenda a lot when Brenda first came back. My impression is that Olivia didn't like Brenda and she was upset about the baby thing and I remember her saying to Brenda or someone else that Brenda took advantage of Dante. It's been a long time since I watched that story, but I know Olivia wasn't a fan of Brenda's. I don't think Brenda cared one way or the other about Olivia lol. Brenda and Olivia don't interact at S&B's wedding, but Sonny/Olivia do. He says she's 'like a sister' to him which never fails to crack me up and gross me out at the same time.

I don't remember Jane and Amanda being close in season 7 but it's been awhile for me too. But Jane in S7 was all over the place with Michael then with Kyle it was weird. The worst thing about Season 5 is Alison and Jake moving out of the building and them being completely isolated and backburned. And they worked so hard to make Alison/Jake a big thing and true love only to break them up in the end. Poor Alison is probably still drunk in a bar in Atlanta somewhere lol. Were they really a 'gang' though? Some of them were friends, but others never were like Alison/Sydney. The friendships were mostly forgotten to make way for all the bed hopping. I mean, how close can woman be when they have all slept with Jake lol?