DRW50

I'd forgotten about that. I think the way she was used to try to break up Katherine/Stefan and then had her whole backstory rewritten by Guza, etc. is an example right from the getgo. Now I'm thinking back to how many times I had to sit through her and Ned saying they were "gatekeepers." Ugh. Hell. I am also sorry to hear about your mother.

Based on Jake and Cam, we may just need to hope they don't leave town never to be mentioned again.

I tend to think any of the strength in Alexis comes from NLG - the character has always been such a mess and the show has loved to sucker punch her any time she should be in a good place.

A reminder of just how huge Dallas was in the UK at this time: Larry also appears in this, with mother Mary Martin, around two hours and six minutes. He sings a JR-themed song while on his own.

I'm more confused over how they haven't worked out a return for Izzy, even a brief one. The frequent mentions as we never see her are odd. Holly is just overused and like many characters in the revival, feels empty underneath all the constant drama.

https://deadline.com/2024/11/paul-teal-dead-one-tree-hill-actor-1236180587/ This might be more suited to the OTH thread but that was locked in 2012.

Silence of the Lambs was so huge at the time - there were takes everywhere.

I think the reason there is a certain disparity about the concept of Mamie and how viewers felt about her is how Y&R, compared to other soaps at the time, fit into the style of '40s Hollywood. '40s Hollywood too had black servants who were not given their own lives but also not used as comic relief. Y&R of that time was such an immersive experience so you were part of that world - the Abbott family breakfasts that viewers of the time cherished. They all felt like a family to those viewers, Mamie included, even as you then have to remember Mamie had no real voice or life of her own. Mamie was allowed some dignity compared to many other soap maids of the era like Esther or Vivien, and a somewhat ambiguous placement. You remind yourself - well, that's not her family, and no matter how friendly they are to her, she is their servant, she has to do everything they don't want to do. But there's a certain blurring of lines which is difficult to figure out, especially compared to say, Vera on GL, where she had a very warm relationship with Alex but the undertone wasn't far off Scarlett O'Hara and Mammy at times. The ambiguity is down to no real matriarch in the Abbott family. This may be best shown in that completely delirious clip from early in Brenda's return where Dina visits the estate and has an extremely frosty encounter with Mamie, who barely bothers to defer to her. Then Jill is her usual pleasant self before she goes ten rounds with Dina. And you are reminded that Mamie essentially was the matriarch of the family, they just never fully say it out loud. It's telling that when they finally do say the quiet part out loud with Mamie and John, someone quickly got cold feet, although I'm never sure if that was Bell, CBS, or viewers (we never heard of it getting the virulent reaction the Neil/Victoria pairing received).

They seemed to quickly dump any plans of Trina/Gio for Joss/Gio, then that ended. It was sad to see people going on about how he was Trina's new love interest while he was ogling Joss. Carly Jr is such a scene-killer, I would like to think someone at the show realized, but her lesser airtime is probably a fluke. I feel like they resent that they got any increased attention or fan support during that story, and presumably resent any focus having to go to black characters. Any time people say the show is scared of Beyond the Gates I wonder why as Frank and co seem very comfortable with returning to a very white-heavy show to me (and it wasn't as if the black canvas was "up and pumping," as Maria Arena Bell would put it, before then either).

I would say that under Mulcahey's pen Roger was written much more sympathetically than he was at other times. I never saw that with Ava. But Ava is just a shell anyway, so who knows. Either way, I felt like she was on borrowed time. I don't think Valentin is gone, but Finn does seem to be, along with Howarth, unless ABC lets Frank do whatever he wants again.

She went back to Loving repeatedly.

I don't think the twist itself was a bad idea. Doing it so that Ridge and Bridget could hook up is another matter...

Something has never clicked to me in Genie's return performances (she had much more of a life in her work during her first run). Knowing that she was so horribly treated and never wanted to return helped me understand why.

Marland and ATWT - the very limited number of partners with the Snyders. A number of the stories made sense individually. I appreciate, for instance, that Angel found her first love with Caleb, then got involved with Holden for protection, and finally found healing and peace with Seth. Still, one woman was with all three brothers. Then there was Holden/Caleb and Julie, and Holden/Caleb and Lily. I wonder if Marland had any regrets over Caleb/Lily as I don't remember it ever being revisited. I can't give as much grace to the decisions made with the women in the Snyder family. Kirk going from Iva to Ellie. Iva and Emma dating the same man. If Marland had lived, I wouldn't be shocked if Iva had ended up with Ned Simon. This led to a very sadistic place where Iva had to keep forgiving, accepting, apologizing...and worst of all, had to attend the wedding of her sister and her rapist.

Thanks, as always.

@Franko I forgot they helped Lois & Clark run aground. They later wrote for Supernatural, and fans always derided their episodes. An infamous one had poor Mishael Morgan as a dog on a leash, and while in human form, was the servant/sex partner of a white warlock (played by ever-handsome Christian Campbell).

I will always believe the one-two punch of keeping Todd around and the sexual abuse story with Viki were big mistakes that cast a shadow over OLTL's remaining time on the air. I believe by that time ABC owned RH, so you'd think they could have made the move if they wanted to. I don't think RH suited an hour. I think she was right that no soaps needed to be an hour. Claire Labine was a wonderful writer, but there are so many mistakes made on the show starting in 1978 and 1979, partly through her and Mayer, partly through ABC.

Thanks. Never heard of this or seen it. Teri had some bad breaks on TV. Patrick really was all over TV in these years. A very unique presence. They also have a pilot up for the attempt at revamping It Had To Be You, and a blog post about their struggles. FAYE DUNAWAY (PART NINE) | Nicholls and Vickers

GL did have some angst-ridden, doomed young couples in the '60s. I don't know if any were signature. Johnny and Peggy might come closest.

It's hard to believe sometimes Cass and Felicia weren't even on the show 20 years. They lived so many lives. You probably remember better than I do. I thought I remembered him saying something briefly about needing to go home to his wife, maybe when he was leaving a party.

It speaks volumes for how much charisma Stephen had that he even had so many popular pairings (and I think Nicole/Cass even had a few fans, although I wasn't one of them). I could swear he mentions her in one appearance but I may be making that up.

Yes. Looking back there are a few culty vibes in the relationship and the wedding, but it's still beautiful. I am also not that aware, compared to people who watched at the time. I wonder if Leslie/Mike are similar to Kim/Dan (I might be going that way as Kathryn played Leslie for a brief time).

We clearly weren't meant to see Kathleen and Cass as a proper couple in her second go-round. They had almost no fun moments together. At their best I would put them over Cass and Frankie. Stephen and Alice worked well together but I find the relationship overrated and a bit dreary at times. I would give Cass and Lila a B.

There are a few other hints of drama with Carrie around her wedding day, like Jackie fearing her and some other hints of her toxic past, but I agree it's mostly low-key. I think Kelly and Morgan may be the first "big" GL wedding I have ever seen. You can tell they put a lot of care into it with the location. Even if it doesn't compare to later glories of budget busting like the Mindy and Kurt wedding. I wonder how Leslie and Mike's wedding was.

@Paul Raven That's totally fair. I do like Susan and she could have clicked as Kathleen.