DRW50

Thanks. That would be so lovely to see. I'm glad at least we have the recap. I saw Susan Lucci's comments recently about Agnes being the first to have glamour or humor on soaps. I don't think that's entirely true (you have glamour with Meg on Love of Life, or comedy with Stu and Marge on Search for Tomorrow), but she may have been the first to fuse everything into one product and to allow viewers to accept that fusion. (the only fusion involving AMC I would support)

I thought GH used it up to the early/mid '70s.

Don would have made more sense, especially given his history with Lisa. Maybe they didn't want too many older male characters around and Don would have been more prominent than Ralph. It wouldn't have cost the show much to kill Mary off. Nothing against Kelly Wood but the character bores me to tears (that May 1979 episode is one of the few I've seen where she has a bit of presence....and one of the few where she is flatteringly styled).

I've seen some clips of Chinese soaps that go online and are a minute or less. They pack in a lot of drama, almost hysterically so. A lot of drama is better than no drama, but I'm not sure if it works for me in the soap format. I do think soaps, if they had a much smaller cast and tighter focus, could benefit from returning to a 15-minute format. Or even 10. That seems to be the attention span of many people now.

Thanks.

The irony is ABC is the network that set the whole notion of casting unconventional leading men, with Tony Geary. Yet they didn't pay attention to their own lessons. Loving got lucky with Robert Tyler and they did a good job casting younger men in the early '90s, but they often got it wrong with Curtis. They tried over and over but it never clicked (I guess Linden Ashby was popular but he only stayed a few years). If they had actually tried to write for Chris' Curtis properly instead of making him a headcase and heel, it would have opened up the canvas.

In the Marland era Vanessa's type seemed to be whatever moved the plot along. I have a hard time believing she would ever be desperate for Tony, but she was. I think Katie would have been more Roger's type, but that wouldn't have brought the added Bauer angst.

I think what hurt Joyce was her being so tied to characters who were long gone, aside from family functions or supporting Lisa. There was certainly a time she could have returned - maybe when Grant was given that bizarre return in 1989 where we were meant to think he might have killed Earl or was gaslighting Lisa - but she doesn't seem like Marland's type of difficult female character. Lilith, Tess, Marcy, etc. were much more blatant and one-note (and I generally enjoyed those characters but I will still admit it). If later hacks had known of her, those who wrote in the '00s, she probably would have shown up, but she would have been played by someone who had been on AMC or OLTL and probably put poison gas in Oakdale. I can see why they went this route with Lisa. She had been repeating the same stories with Bob and Grant for years. A fresh start makes sense, even if nothing came of it.

"Woke" now means anything that isn't a straight, white, able-bodied man. Today Little House would be called "DEI" and "woke" because of the focus on Laura. We would be told that the producers and writers hate men. They would also be called "DEI" and "woke" due to having blind characters, black characters, and characters in wheelchairs.

She probably just thought he was hot, which I guess he was, even if he's a bit vacant. That clip is new. The Hillary angst over Roger is in other episodes and clips from that time - I think there's a flashback around of Hilary ending their relationship.

I never did get to those but I'm glad they were at least around for some to see and for the cast to enjoy. I'm sure they must have expected more - if they had started a few years earlier they might have taken more advantage of the ABC soap boom. I know it must have been odd to have more fame in Italy than in the US, where they could barely even get magazine covers. I don't think the show ever really found the "moments" that would have generated blowing up, but then with the timeslot and affiliate issues and how hard it was for a new soap by then (other than B&B, which benefited massively from Y&R), there wasn't much of a chance. You probably already saw it, but Lauren Marie Taylor talked about some of the public response or lack thereof in a Locher Room interview last year.

Tony Orlando and Dawn probably fit in better with what people expected - it doesn't seem like S&D was as much of the peppy false '50s as Happy Days. I have seen some of Tony Orlando and Dawn (I am still confused about why the show became known as Rainbow Hour in its last season). Tony is charming but a lot to take. I do enjoy Telma Hopkins and Joyce Vincent Wilson. I think even if his drug problems hadn't destroyed their partnership, it wouldn't have lasted much longer.

Thank you so much for letting me have them! I'm not sure why either - there were some song issues but I think most places can still see the episodes, so I just left them in for now. Thanks to Chris as well. I wish I'd been able to watch the reunions he put together. They were gone before I ever could. It was nice of him to try to bring everyone together at a time when we all did genuinely think harmony might be a possibility. His time on Loving is very underrated, in part because most of what is available is just Curtis as the heavy/having breakdowns. Sorry to hear about the lost episodes but maybe they will show up someday. The main thing is you did have some to share with everyone and I can't thank you enough. I remember SOD having a quote in the mid '90s from a fan who called Loving "the little soap that could." That we are all still trying our best to share our memories and theories and assemble pieces (there's even an awesome, very detailed blog for the show) all these years later proves just how right she was.

Not sure if this or the Family thread would be a better place (given Gary Frank being on both shows), but I thought it might be better here as the show was seemingly very hard to find and now all the episodes are on Youtube, from the channel that has given us so much. There's a lot of good stuff in this article, including the info that it was based on a pilot called Senior Year, that it was one of the lowest-rated shows of the season when it was canceled, etc. https://www.tvobscurities.com/2019/10/episode-guide-sons-daughters/

Some of the backstage rumors involving Victoria make me less interested in ever seeing her in leading material, but I do agree there's more they could do with her. Leyla going will never make any sense to me. I blame that whole unit with David being ruined, again partly due to backstage issues. I do wonder if that would have been Steph's fate if Lorraine Chase hadn't wanted to leave.

I agree with you. It sucks that Valentini won't even go a little further. especially in key moments like Laura reuniting with her children. I wonder if he has convinced ABC this is the only way to save money and they don't care enough to disagree.

I was mostly thinking of her compared to Ellen, who generally always just had David, aside from brief periods. Claire was with Jim Lowell, then Doug, then Michael, for serious relationships. Thanks. I didn't realize they had gone that far. I guess it was the early '80s... You and @All My Shadows are both making great points about Nancy. I always enjoy seeing Nancy, but I felt like she was especially off the chain in that 1973 episode, whereas in some past episodes Grandpa was more of a balance. By the early '80s, with Grandpa gone and Chris not appearing as often, she could have really been a force, if the show had seen her value. Is he the one that Kim dated when she and Bob were separated? I knew he and Ellen dated but haven't watched enough of that time to realize they'd become intimate. I am glad Caso at least kept Pat Bruder on (until he was fired) but I am sorry we didn't get more of her finding a new love and life.

This is very dangerous and would be getting more attention in a press or a country that cared. Sadly, we live in a country where two major plane crashes in two days get a shrug and claims that anyone who isn't a white man was to blame are treated as profound wisdom. And JD Jaundice, replaced by Elon, spends his time arguing with failed Tories on social media about how real Christians want the world to be full of hate and pain. Exclusive: Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency, sources say | Reuters https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/31/elon-musk-treasury-department-payment-systems/

A journalist who wrote an op-ed for the LA Times has said the owner (who also refused to let the paper endorse Kamala Harris) rewrote his op-ed to be pro RFK Jr. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/31/la-times-rfk-jr-opinion-patrick-soon-shiong-010210 Various media outlets are also being investigated and punished by Trump, even when some of them have given him favorable coverage for years. Trump’s FCC chief investigates NPR, PBS : NPR https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/pentagon-removes-major-media-outlets-nbc-news-dedicated-workstations-p-rcna190276

If you can find it through...whatever means, try to watch Marianne's infamous performances on SNL. Her voice was completely gone that night, but it's oddly haunting and enthralling, especially on the second song. It also fits the episode, which is among the most hellish and disorienting in the show's history. She later sang with Metallica, briefly, in a late '90s episode. A writeup of that night from her bio. https://justbackdated.blogspot.com/2014/05/marianne-faithfull-on-saturday-night.html

@prefab1 Thanks. I'd never seen that. He looks oddly like Van Hansis here (just with a mustache). Of course he played Michael... I imagine the complaining was another reason the Dobsons were fine with writing Jay out, although I'm not sure what story was left for him. Anything of him later on just seems to be about pride and money problems, the same tedium they would then give his replacement (Steve). He is right that they should have done more with a Jay/Lisa relationship. And then they teased again with Lisa and other younger men (Brad, Brian, the other Jay). Never happened. Lisa never had any stories with younger men. @EricMontreal22 you have probably already seen these, but Jay is in a number of the clips (full episodes chopped up) WLS posted from October 79-early 1980. Here's the first (he's in the last sections). @Vee I was going to say that killing Susan's son gave her a chance to be given more storylines than Ellen had, but I guess Denise Alexander leaving mostly put a stop to that. The odd part is they were fine with giving Ellen's mother Claire several love interests (at least until they realized they'd made her a great-grandmother and killed her). I suppose it's because she never had a steady partner. Or because she was labeled a "neurotic" so that meant more stories about men who didn't love her. Ellen always had David. By the time she didn't, they weren't really writing for her. I don't even know if she had any other serious love interest during the period she and David almost divorced.

That's a fun line. By this time Mac was such a thoroughly good character that they seem to be going overboard to show us how normal he is compared to elitist Iris. You never would have seen Palmer or Adam Chandler acting that way.