Just now, Taoboi said:

I do feel that the show has stalled as of last week and moreso once Nicole said in dialogue that Winterfest is NEXT MONTH. It had momentum IMHO for it until THAT happened.

And not helped by me not actually liking Friday's episode. However, it is a good tell of Jazmen not being a good fit with that breakdown writer. Which so far, I find those two are surprisingly 50/50 together for some reason.

I agree t's kind of stalling... but the good thing for me is that it's at a point where I'm curious about what will unfold. It's not stalling in a bad spot. I still have a lot of unresolved drama that I really care about. If they can take their time without making it boring or losing viewers... I'm all in. That being said... I really want to see the ratings go up, so I'm totally open to some intense drama coming up soon.

On 11/20/2025 at 12:21 PM, ranger1rg said:

I'll ask you since I can't get a response from the poster who continually complains about the breakdowns from Carlivati and Giddens. Just what is wrong with those breakdowns? Why do their episodes need to be saved by the script writer?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I really don't get it.

It's been a busy week so early apologies for the late reply. Since we did this conversation last month and it devolved into that other recurring conversation that pops back up like a weed and (and I see it's trying to at a glance of the last page)...I will say this much...I personally feel that if neither one of you are on ignore and that poster still hasn't replied, they might be doing that word that starts with a T (& is currently banned from this thread on you) IMHO. I know you have asked enough times. Again...to say more than that will turn into the OTHER recurring conversation that we all collectively are trying to avoid so I will cease on referencing on that.

As for Carlivati and Giddens, just like the last time we had this conversation, I think I explained it well from my POV...using RC as the example and how his first episode was. I'm not sure if you have followed RC's writing regime through the shows he has been on outside of GH, but I posted out some of his characteristics then from that first episode and Vee also brought up that first episode earlier this week as well. And thank you to @Chris B for giving a little bit about the breakdown writer as well because part of the reason I do pick on the breakdown writer...from memory of soap articles, interviews from TV shows, reading up on writing, etc...has been that some of the lines of dialogue can be written directly from the breakdown writer on his breakdown and 'lifted' onto the scriptwriter's script for the day...something Chris said that Jamey (who as a writer I have said I don't have any experience with unlike other boarders) has mentioned re: actual dialogue in his breakdowns.

What intrigued me the most this week...is we ACTUALLY have what I was talking about on FULL DISPLAY this week. Ron Carlivati had back-to-back breakdowns this week. And the episodes were good, but they were night and day literally (and I can't wait to rewatch). Overall, I have found that RC has improved IMO and his breakdowns always seem to be the most soapy...usually in a good way. Jazmen did one day and Danielle Paige the other. I mentioned that I found that Jazmen really seems to be able to turn straw into gold and can really write a great script in spite of RC's writing tics. I have so far found that Danielle is weak in that regard...so it didn't surprise me in her episode with RC's breakdown...a LOT of those campy usually-not humorous-to-me RC writing tics were showing up versus Jazmen's episode where I didn't pick up on anything, but a good episode. So I do feel a good scriptwriter (looking at you, GH under Guza) can take overall story breakdowns and make something of it even if the writing is horrible or problematic.

I haven't read through the whole week yet so I'm surprised I saw very little of people talking on the fact RC did back-to-back breakdowns and started to compare the scriptwriters. That is completely ripe for discussion and debate simply because we been talking dialogue for a few weeks now.

20 minutes ago, Maxim said:

I agree t's kind of stalling... but the good thing for me is that it's at a point where I'm curious about what will unfold. It's not stalling in a bad spot. I still have a lot of unresolved drama that I really care about. If they can take their time without making it boring or losing viewers... I'm all in. That being said... I really want to see the ratings go up, so I'm totally open to some intense drama coming up soon.

Yeah outside of Friday (and I don't know why other than Jamey/Jazmen don't mix), I don't feel it's stalling in a bad way either. I really am starting to think that something IS going to happen with SPS because the confrontations between her and Laura keep having. That return of the SPS I fell in love with was on full display for a second there...then she played it off. Why would the writers keep reminding us of it if something in terms of that unless something is going to be revealed and (fingers crossed) comeuppance is named Silk Press Sheila. IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE TOWN (and Have-Nots) perferably.

I also wonder if it's a case of Tracy Thomson doing new storyline directions as well.

I never thought that so much of the disappointment that people have about the show would've been because of Leslie and Eva. To the point that some of the viewers want them both off the show. Wow! I see it everywhere people saying that Leslie needs to pay for the things that she's done. I take it that these viewers were never fans of The Haves and The Have Nots because Veronica Harrington never payed for anything. She kept right on steamrolling over everyone.

On 11/22/2025 at 12:11 AM, Paul Raven said:

Nicole's house needs some color and texture, and a bigger sofa. Everything is too neutral.

Don't hate me, but that is how I see Nicole - needing more texture and color and too neutral. I'm a Dani gal.

Well when villains don't get some form of comeuppance, soap audiences tend to complain about it. That was the very nature of those arcs on soaps so the villains could even stay around on canvas. We saw them scheme. We saw them get smug. We saw them set up for the fall. And then we saw them exposed (at an event in front of the whole town). We saw them become the pariah. And if the acting is right, we saw them become the underdog in some cases. Or put in jail/ran out of town otherwise. If not killed. The best ones also had a trump card that would either lead to redemption of some sort...or for them to start the cycle again.

Speaking just re: social media, I think a lot of the impatience re: Leslie comes from new viewers frankly not used to daytime. There's an ebb and flow to this stuff. It's not like Empire where stuff wraps up in 2-3 episodes or less, or Tyler Perry shows which, nevermind.

The Eva/Kat wars are heavy but remain good for the show and getting eyeballs. The audience is well divided there. My only real issue is with Tomas still being part of the picture, and the show not necessarily knowing what lane it wants to be in with Eva from day to day, or not being consistent enough re: her inconsistency. I like Eva and think she's a breakout, same as Kat, but I'm going to start taking shots every time she howls 'MAWMAH!' while enabling her mother.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Vee

I feel that as well. I also would add that for some of the older soap fans, it's been so long since a soap has truly given it like the soaps of old...and being used to the pacing of today and shows like Empire and Tyler Perry's that they are out of practice so they might be impatient right along with the newer fans.

I know I've been saying this a lot the last few days in the Y&R and GH thread, but it is really a compliment to the acting that I love the actress playing Eva, but I no longer like Eva as a character...outside of the start of her and Izaiah. She's truly her mother's daughter. But that's good because Kat vs Eva is a great rivalry and while it's not perfect, it is most definitely messy and continues to have legs...a happy accident (like Dani/Andre was in the main story of Dani/Bill/Hayley) in the main storyline of Silk Press Sheila. You know you hit gold when the audience is not only engaged, but they are evenly divided on whom side they are on.

I have noticed what appear to be slight story shifts going on since Thomson came on. And one of them does appear like Tomas is being more background in that storyline while Kat and Eva appear to be more around Izaiah. Perhaps it will finally be phased out if not pulled out of that orbit.

On 11/18/2025 at 3:35 AM, ranger1rg said:

-- Ending the show with Eva leaving with Izaiah instead of Peaches' phone call to Leslie was head-scratching.

Have you checked who the breakdown writer was that day? lmaooo Maybe we finally have something to blame them for!

On 11/18/2025 at 3:35 AM, ranger1rg said:

-- I like the Izaiah actor, but I'm not sure the role was cast properly. Nothing about him says bad boy, nothing says danger.

On 11/19/2025 at 12:54 AM, GLATWT88 said:

What is Elon's issue with Izaiah again? Considering we are supposed to believe that Izaiah was some troubled youth, why wouldn't Elon be gald his son has seemed to mature and has a job at a great school. I get that family wounds and patterns can run deep, and somehow Joey was a paternal figure to Izaiah but Izaiah's troubles seem behind him. 

It's a combination of bad acting and bad writing. These writers can't write an alpha male to save their lives. In the meantime, Izaiah has shared non-stop how much of a black sheep he is, yet it's all talk for now we haven't seen any proof.

On 11/21/2025 at 2:13 AM, Broderick said:

I can't tell one breakdown writer's work from another.

On 11/21/2025 at 3:24 AM, Broderick said:

Same here. I can tell the difference in the dialogue writers. I can also tell some difference in the directors. For me, what distinguishes a "good episode" from a "lousy episode" is (a) what material the headwriting team gave the breakdown writer to work with, (b) whether the dialogue is crisp and realistic, and (c ) what choices the director makes in presenting the scenes.

LMAO same!
I'm more of a director type of guy. And Pascarelli is the worst. (love me some Phideaux on the other hand)

On 11/22/2025 at 3:08 AM, ranger1rg said:

-- That cafeteria set looks like an afterthought, and it's claustrophobic.

It's ugly, pointless, identity-less... honestly a waste of money.

And they always have the extras in the background do the weirdest things in that set.

On 11/22/2025 at 6:11 AM, Paul Raven said:

Nicole's house needs some color and texture, and a bigger sofa. Everything is too neutral.

I think that set needs a 'statement piece'.

That chaise longue is too on the nose.

23 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

We're getting far less traction on the BTG board these days.

That was bound to happen, I know. The pure rush and excitement of a new soap was bound to wear off a bit. Now we're into holiday season where people are busier and perhaps not posting as much.

Still, I wonder if something else is going on. I wonder if interest in GATES is waning, at least here.

I myself have been getting behind and finding myself too bored to catch up.

Honestly the show's 'format' does not work. They have characters going back and forth from one cafe place to another to talk and it's just gotten ridiculous. They need some glue that holds the characters together and raises the stakes - and the Dupree family ain't it. Y&R had Newman and Jabot, B&B had Forrester and Spectra, GH had the hospital... I'm not saying you need a corporation but you need some umbrella set up as a catalyst for characters to meet up at work and do projects together.

I would blame it on business of the holiday and/or work though the show has stalled a bit in the last couple of weeks.

With this week being a short week, this thread could be less than 50 pages.

To me, I think the Kat vs Eva feud is going back to where it should have stayed in the front place.... Ted (their father) with Nicole and Anita finally giving her two cents on occasion when it comes to both of the girls.

Unpopular opinion, but TT had a much better written character and story arc on ATWT as Jessica Griffin than she's had as Anita Dupree on this show thus far.

With that said, she and Tisha have strong on screen chemistry as Anita and SPS.. and it's nice that she can sort of be cordial to Eva recognizing perhaps a little of herself in Eva (since we all know Anita did not come from money and wasn't the nicest of people back in her youth).

Dare I say it.. but I like that the show has a strong set of supporting/B characters that I kind of enjoy better than the Duprees.

The Have Not duo of Jan/Mona have a good friendship chemistry... and @Taoboi you might get your wish to see the Have not duo seeing SPS being exposed since Jan did get an invite to Winterfest and Mona is going to be there as well. And Jan said that without proof, she isn't going to condemn SPS so an exposure of some sort would need to happen in order to get Jan to back off yet again from resuming her friendship with SPS. The Have Not going ons are one of my favorite of the C stories.

Laura has been a wonderful addition as a supporting/recurring character and given the type of focus/layers that I wish the show would give Chelsea. The PTSD she feels after her trauma is realistic considering the accident and then her heart issues at the hospital.. and her feeling uneasy around SPS (with good reason) while having a warm relationship with Mona, Nicole, & Anita.. and even was nice to Eva.

Dare I say it, but I'd rather Samantha be written off and more focus given to Laura since I think there is story there with her character and her occasional mentions of her boyfriend, etc.

I still can't stand Jan.

8 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

The Have Not going ons are one of my favorite of the C stories.

I too enjoy the Have Nots. I just wish there were a few more in that group and that we saw them together more often. How about including June in the group, since she seems to be on stable footing now, and is now probably working-class? Also, they could add an employee of the country-club, and maybe Anita and Vernon's housekeeper. I would much rather see an expanded group of Have Nots instead of an additional wealthy family (as some folks are asking for).

2 hours ago, Aback said:

Honestly the show's 'format' does not work. They have characters going back and forth from one cafe place to another to talk and it's just gotten ridiculous. They need some glue that holds the characters together and raises the stakes - and the Dupree family ain't it. Y&R had Newman and Jabot, B&B had Forrester and Spectra, GH had the hospital... I'm not saying you need a corporation but you need some umbrella set up as a catalyst for characters to meet up at work and do projects together.

It seems like this show is more driven toward relationships than anything else, at least initially. The first couple of months almost all about developing each character and the relationships between them. It also seems like MVJ tried to go against the trends of the other soaps by not have a big corporation on the canvas. Corporations aren't a bad thing on soaps, but they often end up being a crutch for writers who don't know what to do with the characters.