Sally's stint would have been the perfect time to start scaling back the business/ wealth element.

They hinted at it with Fenmore's having troubles, which was realistic but never followed through- a couple of years later Lauren is declaring they're opening stories in Korea.

Instead she should have had to close stores and reinvent the business-that could have been an ongoing thread.

GC Buzz should have been dropped and Hilary/Mariah moved to Jabot.

Devon's inexperience could have seen him lose some dough.

Similarly Jabot would have to face the future. Jack could be all about John's legacy and represent tradition with Kyle wanting to embrace a new slim line business model etc

Again that personal/professional angle brought into stories.

Enough with private jets, billion dollar takeovers and villas in Tuscany.

5 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Sally's stint would have been the perfect time to start scaling back the business/ wealth element.

They hinted at it with Fenmore's having troubles, which was realistic but never followed through- a couple of years later Lauren is declaring they're opening stories in Korea.

Instead she should have had to close stores and reinvent the business-that could have been an ongoing thread.

GC Buzz should have been dropped and Hilary/Mariah moved to Jabot.

Devon's inexperience could have seen him lose some dough.

Similarly Jabot would have to face the future. Jack could be all about John's legacy and represent tradition with Kyle wanting to embrace a new slim line business model etc

Again that personal/professional angle brought into stories.

Enough with private jets, billion dollar takeovers and villas in Tuscany.

This would have been a sensible path for the show to take but for whatever reason, tptb are dead set on maintaining that fantasy world that has no connection to reality, even though that is the very aspect that has been costing them viewers for decades.

The Lauren Fenmore struggles storyline is a story that I remember quite well because it is probably one of the last storylines that I watched in totality. I remember thinking what a huge disappointment it was, so many missed opportunities. Retail was definitely struggling (still is) and they could have created a situation where Fenmore’s would have to either downsize or shut down all except the flagship store and retool and see Lauren grapple with having to navigate the situation, perhaps creating a strain on her relationships, including her marriage.

I would also add that the Newmans should have lost a ton of money (by the hands of either Adam, Nick or Victoria, forcing them to possibly have to liquidate some divisions and some properties and maybe even live under one roof (a la the Forrester family in the early days of B&B) at the ranch estate.

Hey, maybe there is a Savings and Loan scandal that wipes out nearly half of the wealth of Genoa City and many of the well heeled citizens have to cope with the loss of net worth. You could see people who didn’t grow up with wealth (Victor, Nikki, Sharon, Devon, Jill, Adam who grew up on a farm) coping much better than those trust fund nepotism babies.

It would be a chance to restructure the stories in ways that are sustainable.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I would also add that the Newmans should have lost a ton of money (by the hands of either Adam, Nick or Victoria, forcing them to possibly have to liquidate some divisions and some properties and maybe even live under one roof (a la the Forrester family in the early days of B&B) at the ranch estate.

Hey, maybe there is a Savings and Loan scandal that wipes out nearly half of the wealth of Genoa City and many of the well heeled citizens have to cope with the loss of net worth. You could see people who didn’t grow up with wealth (Victor, Nikki, Sharon, Devon, Jill, Adam who grew up on a farm) coping much better than those trust fund nepotism babies.

I would watch the sh!t out of a Fall of the House of Newman story. Hell, it may be the only way to make them interesting to me. They wouldn’t have the balls to really do it, though. They are coasting along on this vaguely aspirational idea of the Newmans from years ago. That is SO played out.

They toyed with a Newman scandal surrounding Amanda’s grandfather, and of course it turned out to be a gigantic nothingburger, allowing Victor to just stroll in and save the day in a story he had no business being involved with.

Ashland could have been a great opportunity to actually topple NE, but you never ever believed he was a true threat. This show has a very sitcom mentality where they feel we expect the heroes to be unscathed at the end.

I would love to see a Bernie Madoff-type character wreak havoc on the town.

I so meant to post on this yesterday when I saw it. Thanks so much @Chris B for the cliff notes version. 

As others have already said, her stint was the last time I felt Y&R actually felt like Y&R overall and I’m not surprised it was micromanaged to death. Sure there was some dreck like the Charlie/Maddie soarsing, miscast Scott, and some storylines ending on a whimper but by summer it felt like it was finally coming together until they abruptly axed her. I had wished Alden had been Co-HW instead of consultant.  Alas.

I do wonder who reached out to her and why they bothered at all. I figured Brent Boyd would have been the natural successor to be HW of the show at some point. 

As for Mike and Carrie I’m glad she mentioned it. I did like parts of their story and felt Critchlow and Clark had chemistry. I was entertained by the crazy Ali McIntyre and her “Carrie Reed Barbie” doll. However, as with a lot the SSM there were some really dumb moments. Their magical flying bed had to be the worst, while literally riding off into the sunset on horseback to go the airport together was a silly end. Not mention Mike talked to Carrie about his marriage to Margo…which put Mike in his late 40’s as opposed to mid to late 30’s.

On 1/19/2023 at 2:30 PM, Soaplovers said:

My theory why the killing pool story was so good was because Reilly probably helped her pace the story.

Sussman seemed to have good ideas, just was lousy at pacing the stories.

And also with ED's exit, it was a perfect storm of a story with a beginning, middle, AND end. I still remember that every Friday had a cliffhanger that truly kept you hanging. 

 

While I have liked her stuff, I do agree she has a pacing problem. 

I did like Roark Critchlow and Carrie together. The show was shít but that was to be expected for DAYS at that time.

As I've said, the bones of the attempts at business stories under Sussman were good but the execution was so threadbare and half-assed, like they were afraid of doing anything that went in-depth or beyond the most basic dialogue. I still remember people roasting the daily eps dealing with this. I can't fault the audience for that, but I do think at least part of the blame goes to what not just Sussman but so many creatives have talked about in recent years: The intense higher-up micromanagement of any kind of mature or intelligent storytelling in lieu of lazy stunts, vanilla mediocrity and talking down to the audience as much as possible. Y&R today wants the illusion of 'people doing business' but there is no there there, just characters swapping titles at jobs we don't really see. So I can't put the issues with the Fenmore crisis, etc. entirely down to Sussman. I think the problem is institutional: Dumb this material down or keep it brief as much as possible, make it either lightweight or (in the case of Griffith and co.) invisible.

Edited January 21, 20232 yr by Vee

On 1/19/2023 at 11:29 PM, Broderick said:

Yes, and then when you tell a provocative storyline (such as the one Sussman mentioned -- an uncharacteristically belligerent Devon having an altercation with the police), it could ripple throughout the entire organization and beyond.   You'd have Lily, who works at Jabot, immediately taking up for Devon, while a character who's at odds with Lily over a project at Jabot -- say, Billy, for instance -- immediately takes up for the police.  A character who'd previously worked with Devon but who now works at Jabot might release, on social media, video footage of Devon yelling at the policemen.  Those were the types of stories that Bill Bell did -- not so much "who's the new CEO", but rather how all the characters respond to one another and to the events that are happening in their midst.  It becomes about the CHARACTERS, and not just about where they happen to work.   

THIS.

On 1/20/2023 at 12:39 AM, AbcNbc247 said:

>“It’s an opinion show”

>gets mad when people who listened offer their opinions 😂😂 

Hehe. That's what it sounds like to me. And doubling down ain't helping it. 

 

On 1/20/2023 at 4:49 AM, dragonflies said:

That Casey Hutch person and Tiggz have people blocked cause they can't handled "constructive criticism" yet we're supposed to believe a word he says 😂

Yep.

 

 

22 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

it felt like it was finally coming together until they abruptly axed her. I had wished Alden had been Co-HW instead of consultant.  Alas.

Yeah, once the characters came back from L.A., it felt like the show got momentum only for her to get axed.

 

I agree about Alden. I would have loved to see it. But alas...

42 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Hehe. That's what it sounds like to me. And doubling down ain't helping it. 

Haha that's the Soap Twitter crowd in a nutshell. The Dishin Days crew is like that too sometimes.

Edited January 21, 20232 yr by AbcNbc247

3 hours ago, Vee said:

I did like Roark Critchlow and Carrie together. The show was shít but that was to be expected for DAYS at that time.

As I've said, the bones of the attempts at business stories under Sussman were good but the execution was so threadbare and half-assed, like they were afraid of doing anything that went in-depth or beyond the most basic dialogue. I still remember people roasting the daily eps dealing with this. I can't fault the audience for that, but I do think at least part of the blame goes to what not just Sussman but so many creatives have talked about in recent years: The intense higher-up micromanagement of any kind of mature or intelligent storytelling in lieu of lazy stunts, vanilla mediocrity and talking down to the audience as much as possible. Y&R today wants the illusion of 'people doing business' but there is no there there, just characters swapping titles at jobs we don't really see. So I can't put the issues with the Fenmore crisis, etc. entirely down to Sussman. I think the problem is institutional: Dumb this material down or keep it brief as much as possible, make it either lightweight or (in the case of Griffith and co.) invisible.

I started watching Y&R again for Danny and Daniel's return and it always shocks me when I tune in these past couple years and everybody is running around town so tense and there's always this sense of dread like something big is about to happen, but it never does. It's such an odd way of telling a story. They often set up the right types of stories that could have big dramatic pay offs, but the pay off is either off camera or just doesn't happen.

2 hours ago, Chris B said:

I started watching Y&R again for Danny and Daniel's return and it always shocks me when I tune in these past couple years and everybody is running around town so tense and there's always this sense of dread like something big is about to happen, but it never does. It's such an odd way of telling a story. They often set up the right types of stories that could have big dramatic pay offs, but the pay off is either off camera or just doesn't happen.

Alot of the stories end with a big moral decision and the characters decide to be the bigger better person instead of doing the dramatic messy thing now, for whatever reason. Devon could have a custody battle over Dominic but they decide to be friends instead, Nate could have taken over Chancellor‐ Winters but he told the truth instead. Etc etc.

Edited January 21, 20232 yr by Dylan

2 hours ago, Chris B said:

They often set up the right types of stories that could have big dramatic pay offs, but the pay off is either off camera or just doesn't happen.

What I find funny is that people were saying that here when I had stopped watching Y&R. And that was back before JG officially left Y&R the first time and I never recall him doing that. And being back I still wasn't seeing it. Now however...just wow what regularly viewing does because I can't begin to say how annoyed I've been that Jack stealing Nikki's necklace to frame Stark was off screen or how the whole takeover that was very well paced actually was brought to an abrupt end with Nate's confession when oh, it had the potential to go longer and turn into an umbrella story at that with so many people at odds before Nate had to confess. 

 

30 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Nate could have taken over Chancellor‐ Winters but he told the truth instead.

And he told the truth for the 'love' of a woman who he now ignores when he has a dinner date to hang around with Victoria all night. I was like...you gave up the takeover for this woman and THIS is how you are treating the 'love' of your life. smh.

11 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I would watch the sh!t out of a Fall of the House of Newman story. Hell, it may be the only way to make them interesting to me. They wouldn’t have the balls to really do it, though. They are coasting along on this vaguely aspirational idea of the Newmans from years ago. That is SO played out.

They toyed with a Newman scandal surrounding Amanda’s grandfather, and of course it turned out to be a gigantic nothingburger, allowing Victor to just stroll in and save the day in a story he had no business being involved with.

Ashland could have been a great opportunity to actually topple NE, but you never ever believed he was a true threat. This show has a very sitcom mentality where they feel we expect the heroes to be unscathed at the end.

I would love to see a Bernie Madoff-type character wreak havoc on the town.

They can’t even muster the courage to let another Newman besides Victor lead story. I think you’re right that the show tries to create this notion that the Newman’s are still this enviable dynasty, but ironically, the writing over the last decade has shown them to be an utterly chaotic mess! What’s to aspire to?😂 The show thinks it’s still the 1980s and thinks viewers believe this too.

The show has had so many opportunities to have that Bernie Madoff type character, remember Ray? I think that was his name. They could have made him that type who fleeced a lot of the wealthy. Keep him separate from Nikki or delay their eventual encounter (or you know, scrap that whole reboot of the cult storyline), meanwhile present him as this self-made financial whiz who puts the con in conman when he gains the confidence of Jill and Victor, who are impressed by someone who they see as coming up from nothing as they once did.

I feel like a Stan here, but I really think she'd make a good team with Bob Guza. I think they could provide a checks and balances system, she's good at character and the heart, he fills out the action and keeps it from being too boring.

On 1/19/2023 at 7:04 PM, cassadine1991 said: