If we weren't supposed to be laughing at those Sonny scenes yesterday, my apologies.  I was in tears rewinding like crazy.  

In 2022, "Who Gets Sonny" is still a thing.  That is disturbing.  

Nina's rite of passage has begun.  Rescue Sonny, pull him back together and he will love you forever or until the next manic episode.  GARBAGE! 

I was loving this breakup and the impending affair but look at what we get instead.  I slipped up and let my expectations creep up.  Huge mistake!  

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Like Sonny or not, he's been fully developed as a character.  No characters are created like that anymore. 

I give Claire Labine MAJOR props for fleshing out Sonny.  Before she came to the show, Sonny was just a plot device; a low-level thug, created by her predecessor, Bill Levinson, to make Karen Wexler's life hell through drugs and stripping; until he was ready to dispatch with Sonny, either through imprisonment or, more likely, through murder.  (Even back then, I could easily see a scenario where strung-out Karen would have been accused of and stood trial for killing her slimy boss/drug dealer/pimp.)

But, Labine saw there was more to Sonny, and to Maurice Benard, so she began giving him more emotional and psychological layers that went beyond mere villainy.  Then, when she saw the chemistry between MB and VM, it was like capturing lightning in a bottle.  Their initial romance was, IMHO, the best thing to come out of GH in a very, very long time.

If only Sonny (and Sonny/Brenda) had stayed that compelling....

Regardless of how Sonny may have grown, and the jury is still out on that, to avoid Sonny ever being held accountable, let's break out a manic episode.  This easily could have been Sonny having an affair but instead of having him accountable, Michael and Carly will feel bad for holding him to the POS that he is.  I guess because I wasn't fully invested in the show when Sonny came on so I don't see the growth.  He doesn't get young women hooked on drugs, ok...but he finds ways to be trash.  

4 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

Regardless of how Sonny may have grown, and the jury is still out on that, to avoid Sonny ever being held accountable, let's break out a manic episode.  This easily could have been Sonny having an affair but instead of having him accountable, Michael and Carly will feel bad for holding him to the POS that he is.  I guess because I wasn't fully invested in the show when Sonny came on so I don't see the growth.  He doesn't get young women hooked on drugs, ok...but he finds ways to be trash.  

True.  All true.  The thing is, Sonny did evolve -- that is, he evolved from what he was originally, which was nothing -- but he also DE-volved, and that's the problem.

22 minutes ago, Khan said:

I give Claire Labine MAJOR props for fleshing out Sonny.  Before she came to the show, Sonny was just a plot device; a low-level thug, created by her predecessor, Bill Levinson, to make Karen Wexler's life hell through drugs and stripping; until he was ready to dispatch with Sonny, either through imprisonment or, more likely, through murder.  (Even back then, I could easily see a scenario where strung-out Karen would have been accused of and stood trial for killing her slimy boss/drug dealer/pimp.)

But, Labine saw there was more to Sonny, and to Maurice Benard, so she began giving him more emotional and psychological layers that went beyond mere villainy.  Then, when she saw the chemistry between MB and VM, it was like capturing lightning in a bottle.  Their initial romance was, IMHO, the best thing to come out of GH in a very, very long time.

If only Sonny (and Sonny/Brenda) had stayed that compelling....

Sonny was a plot point in the beginning, but I think it's clear everyone saw more to MB than that initial Karen plot.  At least that's what WR, CL, and everyone else claimed after the fact.  Anyway, CL probably did get lucky with Sonny/Brenda or at least the fact that they randomly had chemistry when they shared a couple of scenes.   I guess my point was they were compelling which is something the majority of the cast can't say now.  Willow has never been compelling.   

6 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

Regardless of how Sonny may have grown, and the jury is still out on that, to avoid Sonny ever being held accountable, let's break out a manic episode.  This easily could have been Sonny having an affair but instead of having him accountable, Michael and Carly will feel bad for holding him to the POS that he is.  I guess because I wasn't fully invested in the show when Sonny came on so I don't see the growth.  He doesn't get young women hooked on drugs, ok...but he finds ways to be trash.  

I would actually say Sonny is better than he was 15 years ago.   That's not saying a lot but I feel like from 2001-2009 he was absolutely the worst.

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I guess my point was they were compelling which is something the majority of the cast can't say now.

Same.  As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time GH introduced a character who didn't feel like an anthropomorphic chess piece.  I mean, maybe Carly?  And even SHE turned out to be some sort of miracle since, by Patrick Mulcahey's own admission, the writers introduced her with no actual game plan for her.  If Sarah Brown hadn't turned out to be so interesting to watch, even without a real character to play, chances are, Carly would have come and gone without anyone even batting an eye.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

Same.  As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time GH introduced a character who didn't feel like an anthropomorphic chess piece.  I mean, maybe Carly?  And even SHE turned out to be some sort of miracle since, by Patrick Mulcahey's own admission, the writers introduced her with no actual game plan for her.  If Sarah Brown hadn't turned out to be so interesting to watch, even without a real character to play, chances are, Carly would have come and gone without anyone even batting an eye.

Post-Carly perhaps Liz.  You are going way far back I thought maybe Dante or Patrick?  I thought Patrick was a little cliche, but they did take time to develop him even if sometimes it was poorly done.

I think there are a lot of characters that would have been gone if the actor wasn't interesting.  Brenda, Sonny, Carly, Ric, Alexis, Liz, Patrick, heck even Nina and Ava have lasted longer than they should have because they are interesting to watch.

It's people like Sam that astound me because Kemo isn't interesting and neither is Sam lol.

The kids are finally at the cabin.

^Took them long enough. 

10 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

The kids are finally at the cabin.

 

5 hours ago, carolineg said:

Anyway, part of the reason it's so easy for me to talk about Sonny, Carly, Brenda, Jason or most veterans on the show is because you know their motivations and reasons they do what they do.  Like Sonny or not, he's been fully developed as a character.  No characters are created like that anymore.   Chase, for example, is great, but I feel like I don't know that much about him or what makes him tick.   I don't even think Nina and Ava are that fully developed.  I actually think the last character GH that was is Dante.  It may not be the writers only because I probably have more attachment to characters I grew up with, but even the newer characters I like and enjoy I don't have the investment in.

Exactly. Love or hate him or their work, the old writing team did the deep work with Dante. No character since has been fully taken to that place, though they touched on the earliest iterations of characters like Shawn, etc a bit before they were all ousted in 2012.

Nina has never been fully developed as anything but a lunatic because she was only designed as a crazy showcase for Michelle Stafford. Anything Cynthia Watros brings to it is purely her own talent. It's a waste and she could lift out tomorrow, though I might try to salvage a few things for her before doing that. I do think she fills Lucy's role in the canvas and I'd have Lucy oust her.

Ava is a stone cold killer. She has layers and motivations and even angst, but that is at core who she is and the pre-FV writers would've understood it. This team waffles because they love Maura and want her to still be able to play ATWT/Carly Snyder-type romance sometimes. Ava has had a long run on the show and can continue to have a longer one, but don't pretend to me that she is a heroine. Ava showed us who she was within a month or two of her arrival when she left Connie dead on the floor.

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by Vee

All the characters had more depth when Labine and her team was there, and also early Guza.  Those scenes were long!  They had a lot of character defining dialogue and motivations being expressed and set up back then.  The sets felt lived in and the characters felt defined.  And Guza’s team of writers in the 2000’s knew how to write motivation and give the story depth and character.  I have said it many times- I didn’t like what happened on the show under Frons/JFP/Guza…but I can’t deny the writing was stronger and had a lot of depth and feeling.

I would say Dante is the last character that I feel was fully fleshed out on GH and I felt like I know them and the why they do the things they do.  But he has been misused horribly by FV.  JMB’a Lulu also was a strong character that became nothing.

5 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

4 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

^Took them long enough. 

The kids are finally at the cabin.

Where's that Titanic gif when you need it.

 

4 hours ago, slick jones said:

 

HA!!!

40 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

All the characters had more depth when Labine and her team was there, and also early Guza.  Those scenes were long!  They had a lot of character defining dialogue and motivations being expressed and set up back then.  The sets felt lived in and the characters felt defined.  And Guza’s team of writers in the 2000’s knew how to write motivation and give the story depth and character.  I have said it many times- I didn’t like what happened on the show under Frons/JFP/Guza…but I can’t deny the writing was stronger and had a lot of depth and feeling.

I would say Dante is the last character that I feel was fully fleshed out on GH and I felt like I know them and the why they do the things they do.  But he has been misused horribly by FV.  JMB’a Lulu also was a strong character that became nothing.

I was going to say Lulu, who had growth and an arc in character development, but then I remember ER's Lulu became such a non-entity.

When you think about Labine then early Guza even characters that were a little on the bland side like Jax and Lily had depth.  Lois and Lucy were more than just wacky, fun characters.  Even Jason Morgan had more to offer than Borg/Hired Killer Jason.  He was interesting.

Honestly, I think the current writers are vaguely capable of it.  I just feel like there are genuinely too many people on the cast.  I feel like if they pared it down by half it would be helpful.  I really think there are ideas there but nothing happens.  While on Days it the opposite a lot of stuff happens but it amounts to nothing lol.

15 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I was going to say Lulu, who had growth and an arc in character development, but then I remember ER's Lulu became such a non-entity.

When you think about Labine then early Guza even characters that were a little on the bland side like Jax and Lily had depth.  Lois and Lucy were more than just wacky, fun characters.  Even Jason Morgan had more to offer than Borg/Hired Killer Jason.  He was interesting.

Honestly, I think the current writers are vaguely capable of it.  I just feel like there are genuinely too many people on the cast.  I feel like if they pared it down by half it would be helpful.  I really think there are ideas there but nothing happens.  While on Days it the opposite a lot of stuff happens but it amounts to nothing lol.

It’s not just too many cast members.  It’s the way the show is produced now.  Short scenes, based more around budget and creating a generic product.  Often the actors are the ones that bring anything to their roles- look at Chase.  That is all the actor’s natural charm shining through a very ill defined character.

I think the show is filmed and written in a way that it is easy to produce above all else.  So things seem disjointed and bland quite often.  And then you add the obvious interference that keeps happening behind the scenes when things are really moving again and it just hurts the show we are watching.