Good luck with this discussion!

On 5/26/2021 at 12:02 PM, Taoboi said:

Well, I miss how you make points so that was an interesting discussion to read between jobs yesterday.

 

Aww thank you! Yeah I just don't have it within me to argue on soap messages boards anymore, I'm not young enough, so the back and forth gets tiring to me. But I am more than happy to throw my thoughts on what I see as running commentary on soaps giving how long I've watched them. 

 

On 5/27/2021 at 2:57 PM, dio said:

do you mean on any soap or just DAYS because that's literally Luke and more recently Sonny. Sonny legitinaletly transmuted the entire fabric of GH/soap to the point where "he's bad, but so and so are worse!" etc. became the norm. I don't think any other soap character has changed an entire soap or the soap landscape in the way Sonny has, for better or worse. 

 

Sami humanized EJ which is what made fans start to fall for the character beyond his looks. 

 

I meant Days specifically. I really can't find a character like EJ who shifted Days in a similar way outside of like Stefano who became a caricature villain in the 80's, Tony who was just as much a caricature, and maybe Jack who seemed to fit more or less what they wanted EJ to be and transition into. All of which again are generations removed from when EJ premiered.

 

While we can say from a macro context that JER was canned, and that was the reason the show changed course in terms of narrative and story trajectory from an in-context show stand point the soap doubled down on EJ spinning story for the better part of 8 years, and multiple head writers kept that paradigm in place until Scott left. Am I saying he is as impactful as a Sonny or a Luke on GH? No -- not at all, I don't think he was even close. But I do think we was something like a Todd to OLTL, a Bill on B&B, or a Zach/Ryan on AMC. In that I do think EJ changed the course of the show in the decade he was on.  

 

Ultimately I think we are more or less saying the same thing, just in different ways. I agree that the Sami and EJ dynamic made them both pop, I personally see their 'peaks' in terms of storylines, impact and ubiquity to the show in the 2000's and 2010's as emblematic of their union and love/hate stories. Sami got a second life, and deepened as a character, due to EJ being casted a a 'villian' to finally make her a heroine like Carrie and Belle, when her previous pairings were never able to do that.  

 

I had a bit of a chuckle earlier today when I thought about Ron doing the Two Todd Story for a third time, this time with EJ, if JS decided to return (not likely to happen, but I do wonder if he would tell this story a third time after doing it on OLTL and GH). 🤣

 

On 5/28/2021 at 8:29 PM, dio said:

Bryan Dattilo looks a mess as usual. Why does Alison Sweeney have to be saddled with such tragic love prospects? Meanwhile Greg Vaughan's loking gorgeous as ever. Siiiigh! 😍

 

I agree, I know that fans like Bryan, and Lucas and all but there is a reason why the show always canned him in favor of more model level attracted love interests for Sweeney in the forms of Scott, Galen, and pretty much every other guy they could find in the 2000's to pry Sami away from Lucas. I don't find Dattilo attractive in the slightest, and the fact that they pretty much chose a male clone of AS for Will (Will really looks nothing like Lucas) tells me everything when it comes to Days casting department, and how they value and prioritize Lucas and Dattilo in terms of the narrative.

 

NBC soaps have always been the soaps that focus the most on looks, when it comes to casting, so I can see the producers at least partly looking at who looks the best and using that to inform story, as long as they can handle the memorization of the material.

 

Honestly I think if the show could rewrite Will's paternity and make him EJ's, Rafe's or Austin's they would, that's how much Lucas' legacy has been valued on the show. 

Edited May 30, 20214 yr by Skin

On 5/23/2021 at 10:46 AM, soapfan770 said:

The legacy of Hogan Sheffer and his irresponsible irreparable damage still haunts both Days and Y&R to this day. 

 

It reaped lasting damage onto ATWT too.

18 hours ago, dio said:

i mean people used to drag tf out of Freddie Smith and his double-chin for "letting himself go" but BD and nuEJ looks fine and dandy? Come on, now. 

 

It is a double-standard. Men who don't sport hairless, unrealistic six-packs are "fat" and "undesirable," yet they aren't.

19 hours ago, Skin said:

 

Aww thank you! Yeah I just don't have it within me to argue on soap messages boards anymore, I'm not young enough, so the back and forth gets tiring to me. But I am more than happy to throw my thoughts on what I see as running commentary on soaps giving how long I've watched them. 

 

 

 

 

Hehe. You sound like how I feel sometimes on other threads. Totally understand. 

 

And yes, I still think if Lucas still used his Kate roots (aka his schemer past) he might have more of a chance. But I see your points on how people pivot to other people for Sami at times. 

I'm confused as to how this new EJ looks a mess. Not everyone is going to look as gorgeous as James Scott, but this guy is hardly a mess.

22 hours ago, AlexElizabeth said:

I'm confused as to how this new EJ looks a mess. Not everyone is going to look as gorgeous as James Scott, but this guy is hardly a mess.

Re. EJ's effect on the canvas . . . I think he was/is a very important character, and he caught on very early in his run . . . bbbuuut I don't think *he* changed the show.  "Days" desperately needed to pass the torch around his entrance; the show was just unable to truly move past Marlena, John, Hope, Bo, Jenn, and Jack (and I guess sorta Steve & Kayla) being the leads.  Even with characters like Austin, Carrie, Lucas, Sami, Shawn, Belle, Philip, Chloe, and Brady getting a ton of focus, tptb just couldn't really pass the baton like all the ABC soaps had done by the 2000's (I'm not familiar enough with CBS).

 

But by some miracle, "Days" finally DID transition, but it wasn't because of EJ imo, it was because of the baby switch (like 2 years after EJ's debut).  Which, sure, was a lot about EJ and even EJami, but it all came together like magic for the show and that ALSO had as much to do with Nicole's return and even Galen & Eric's Rafe and Brady . . . I hate giving Dena Higley any credit, but she, Whitesell, and Tomlin (as EP) made this happen and that period is widely credited as a kind of renaissance that literally probably saved "Days."  Those three and the five aforementioned characters really deserve so much credit for moving the show away from J&M/B&H/J&J absolutely dominating the audience's favor . . . it was definitely a new era (obviously other stuff helped the transition like Crystal Chappell and Louise Sorel's unexpected returns).  But then for whatever reasons, they couldn't keep the momentum and Corday decided to go back to the past with the big 2011 "Reboot."  Which didn't work, lol.  After Tomlin & Whitesell took over head writing, they tried go back to what was happening pre-"Reboot" and I think we got a pretty good mix of something fresh and familiar.  Ron, I think despite all his faults, does a good job at striking a balance between the different generations and eras . . . except that for a year+, the show has lacked strong focus and due to so many things, I don't think we've had TRUE leads since Chad & Abby left in early 2019.  Not that I'm saying that Chad/Abby/Stefan being the center of the show for all of 2018 was good, but it was focused . . . now it's just arcs and rotating actors.

^ NBC publicity photo - spoiler for Epi 14124 - Tue 6/15