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6 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I never said that they didn't.  It's not a question of deserve, it's a question of shifting goalposts and lowered standards, similar to the aspect of what constitutes a successful soap opera today has shifted from where it was a decade ago. The ratings that would have led to cancellation a decade ago are now an acceptable barometer today. The standards are lower and have consistently been lowered for a good fifteen to twenty years and counting. What is Emmy certified now would not have even been nominated during either of the two Golden Ages of the soap opera. 

Okay, we'll take the word deserve off the table. The biggest thing about soaps then & soaps now is the issue of creative aesthetics versus the issue of economic aesthetics. We don't have auteurs any more -- and we won't be having them. @DramatistDreamer we live in a world where soaps just plain were better before the 2000s.

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3 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

 

 

No, he wasn't, Colleen Zenk.  Not by a long shot was he good to you.

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@Khan, you don't even know what their relationship was like.  Who are you to say he wasn't good to her?  I just found that kind of disrespectful. 

 

Putting what he wrote aside, he seemed to be a good man who made people laugh - as evidence by what his former colleagues have posted about him. 

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12 minutes ago, Toups said:

@Khan, you don't even know what their relationship was like.  Who are you to say he wasn't good to her?  I just found that kind of disrespectful. 

 

Putting what he wrote aside, he seemed to be a good man who made people laugh - as evidence by what his former colleagues have posted about him. 

 

I think @khan was talking about the writing for Barbara.  It was Sheffer that had Barbara jumping out of a window in court, right?  

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I only interpreted Khan’s post to be about what he wrote for her character.

 

Barbara fell into one of two categories Sheffer generally wrote for female characters - either crazy or totally dependent or defined by a man (sometimes both).

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21 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

 

I think @khan was talking about the writing for Barbara.  It was Sheffer that had Barbara jumping out of a window in court, right?  

Yes, that was during Sheffer and Jean Passanante's time as head writers (2004).

ETA: I keep wanting her to sing "Last Midnight" from Into the Woods in that moment. Why not? It's just as OTT.

Edited by Franko

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20 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I'm I the only one that hated Rose and her existance hogwash of iva not remembering?

 

 

 

No, but even Martha is entitled to her rose-colored glasses.

 

I think what Martha meant was that Hogan was behind the decision to make Rose a twin. (Stupid as that was-----RME...) Not that he created the entire story. I thought I heard that "honor" went to Goutman, who wanted a way to "utilize" Martha's "sense of humor"...…  IMO, the only good moment in the entire story was Holden's reaction to Rose's true, nasal Jersey accent.

 

I think Sheffer was more valuable as an attention getter. At least he tried breaking the image that ATWT was "your granny's soap." I don't think he really had any "new approach" to the craft. I always admired the scriptwriters more (with some exceptions...ugh, the name Lynn Martin still makes me cringe...) with keeping the characters unique and somewhat consistent.

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RIP to him. Regardless of opinions of his work, he no doubt had very strong working relationships with the cast and crew at ATWT, and my heart goes out to them. Every death of a soap personality is sad - we've gotten accustomed to our shows ending, but it's hard to accept that the community is getting smaller as the people pass away, especially those who were very active in the genre just five or ten years ago.

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I have trouble remembering who wrote what but I do remember his writing was very uneven. Things were either excellent or horrible with not much in between. I am probably in the minority with this opinion and I’m not even sure he wrote it but, if he did, my favorite storyline of his was the Rose murder mystery. It got rid of of Rose, which was a plus for me, but I loved that he made Will the killer. Most whodunnits on soaps are big letdowns because the killer is always some background, disposable character. Never a main character, never a member of a main family and never a kid. Sheffer broke all three of those “rules”. It was a great mystery with a good, and shocking payoff.

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15 minutes ago, BillBauer said:

I have trouble remembering who wrote what but I do remember his writing was very uneven. Things were either excellent or horrible with not much in between. I am probably in the minority with this opinion and I’m not even sure he wrote it but, if he did, my favorite storyline of his was the Rose murder mystery. It got rid of of Rose, which was a plus for me, but I loved that he made Will the killer. Most whodunnits on soaps are big letdowns because the killer is always some background, disposable character. Never a main character, never a member of a main family and never a kid. Sheffer broke all three of those “rules”. It was a great mystery with a good, and shocking payoff.

 

Yes, that was him, and ITA with this (Lol and agreed about the getting rid of Rose part.) This may have been the last time the show was consistently good to me. Another rule he broke was that Rose died believing Paul had done it. That’s dark. 

Edited by juppiter

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1 hour ago, Franko said:

Yes, that was during Sheffer and Jean Passanante's time as head writers (2004).

ETA: I keep wanting her to sing "Last Midnight" from Into the Woods in that moment. Why not? It's just as OTT.

Something I am curious about & it is entirely possible that someone is sitting here who knows the answer: Why did Sheffer switch from CCulliton to Passanante? And other switches he made then, too? He had a working combination that was winning Emmys. Seems to me that is stupid to shuffle the deck?

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I think Carolyn Culliton left or was switched by P&G over to GL to help Millee Taggert as her Co-HW. She landed at GL almost as soon as she left the ATWT credits. 

 

Though, I think the real dip in quality was when MADD forced them to fire some very talented male writers in order to inject more women on the writing staff. In 2001-2002, they lost writers like Stephen Demorest, Hal Corley, Jeff Beldner, etc and that did have an impact on the day to day writing and those writers were very good. Though, it was Loraine Broderick and Leah Laiman who brought many of those writers with them. 

Edited by BetterForgotten

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Wow.

 

I knew very little about ATWT before Hogan started on it. I thought it was interesting that the companies were giving a newbie a change. That gave me hope in my wannabe soap opera writer days. 

 

I remember that he was trying to be diverse in writing. There was action. Drama. Comedy...even if I didn't like it. Gothic. Diversity was around. I loved Carly. I was sad about Bryant...so much potential. I was a Rose and Paul fan. I did like the spa storyline, I even remember the 'did you understand that' promo for it and thought it was so clever as a way to write out the three ladies.

 

I had stopped watching DAYS when he came around. And I loved his run for the first six months until the Sami/EJ rape. Just nope.

 

I remember when I was a lurker here that everyone discussed that he, Maria, and Scott seem to write like a committee on Y&R. There were months (or was it every three weeks) where it felt like Hogan writing. Then it would feel like Maria for a bit. Then we would get a mystery a la Scott. Did that ever get confirm? Wasn't my favorite, but I don't hate it nearly as much as others.

 

R.I.P. and thanks for the memories.

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6 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

I think Carolyn Culliton left or was switched by P&G over to GL to help Millee Taggert as her Co-HW. She landed at GL almost as soon as she left the ATWT credits. 

 

Though, I think the real dip in quality was when MADD forced them to fire some very talented male writers in order to inject more women on the writing staff. In 2001-2002, they lost writers like Stephen Demorest, Hal Corley, Jeff Beldner, etc and that did have an impact on the day to day writing and those writers were very good. Though, it was Loraine Broderick and Leah Laiman who brought many of those writers with them. 

Thank you. P&G & then MADD did him no favors! Head Honchos seemed to me to think too much of Jean Passanante & her abilities.

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