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Emma1420

Worst Executive Producer...

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3 hours ago, Mitch said:

As for the last days of GL..the writing improved slightly but come on, it wasnt that great.

I recall balling my eyes out during Lillian's speech about how she was finally free to be happy after Bradley's abuse and her guilt over Maureen, (which was a much-appreciated nod to history), and then again during Alan's death (no spoilers).  Those scenes prove that good writing and fine acting needs better production values because they were great except for the wind which disrupted the sound and the differences in lighting between scenes based on the time of day which cause an unnecessary distraction from the story.

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45 minutes ago, j swift said:

I recall balling my eyes out during Lillian's speech about how she was finally free to be happy after Bradley's abuse and her guilt over Maureen, (which was a much-appreciated nod to history)

 

IA.  I loved that speech as well.  It felt like somebody at the show cared, if only a little bit, about the longtime fans who had stuck with the show through the years (or decades) of crap.

Edited by Khan

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On a personal level, I have to say JFP because she alienated me from three soaps: GL, AW, and OLTL. JFP's love of violence towards women was disturbing on so many levels. Frankie's death in particular was like a gut punch and I still remember what I was doing the day it happened. UGH.

 

I enjoyed some of Conboy's tenure and I liked the idea of his GL opening. I think the last time I watched GL on a regular basis was during the whole Tony/Danny/Michelle mainly because I lusted after both men and I adore triangles where either option is fine. Ellen Wheeler's tenure was just a turn off for me. I couldn't stand Tom Pelphrey and I also didn't care for Tognoni. I stopped watching GL and never went back so I only saw Tina Sloan's monologue and Beth Chamberlain's emmy reel (and she should have won).

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:41 PM, chrisml said:

On a personal level, I have to say JFP because she alienated me from three soaps: GL, AW, and OLTL. JFP's love of violence towards women was disturbing on so many levels. Frankie's death in particular was like a gut punch and I still remember what I was doing the day it happened. UGH.

 

I enjoyed some of Conboy's tenure and I liked the idea of his GL opening. I think the last time I watched GL on a regular basis was during the whole Tony/Danny/Michelle mainly because I lusted after both men and I adore triangles where either option is fine. Ellen Wheeler's tenure was just a turn off for me. I couldn't stand Tom Pelphrey and I also didn't care for Tognoni. I stopped watching GL and never went back so I only saw Tina Sloan's monologue and Beth Chamberlain's emmy reel (and she should have won).

 

JFP had some issues.  The biggest issue with her is that she's overly focused on the men.  The women are expendable if they facilitated a story for the men.  So storylines are built around the men's point of view too often than not, unless there is a strong HW who is female friendly.   However, I'll always give her credit for hiring Michael Zaslow on OLTL after GL fired him.  

 

However, I tend to think a lot of EP's see women as expendable.  Gloria Monty always valued characters (and the actors who played them) like Luke and Robert far more than Laura, Holly, or Anna.   And/or EP's see women as only one of two archetypes.  The angel or the bad girl.  Versus men who could be many shades of gray.  I think that has been an issue across the board with a lot of EP's and writers.

 

 

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I think it is important to keep in mind that producers don't write shows.  They may approve story proposals, but even that job has many cooks in the kitchen.  So, critiques based on story or plot conclusions are not the pervue of the executive producer.  There are old wives tales about producers who like adventure stories or business stories, but those were always suspect to me because their job is not acquired by pitching stories to networks.

 

On the other hand, an interesting story can be ruined by poor production.  My classic example is "Nighttime-Hope" on DAYS.  If you pitched a story about an overwhelmed single parent turning to drugs to help them cope and then becoming addicted, I would be excited.  If you indicated that Hope was on drugs by changing her hairstyle and using jazzy music than the production has fucked up the vision of the writer.   Alternatively, the production values of Eterna saved that very silly story.

 

Also, I think it important to remember that half of what we know about producers is based on people's exit interviews.  Very few people leave a job and have glorifying things to say about their supervisor and the same is true for soaps and soap press.  The Dobsons are remembered as victims of an NBC lockout.  However, when they sued New World and won millions, in the trial they were forced to testify that they had similar dysfunctional relationships at other shows because they could not effectively work with any of the three network daytime executives.  Most "inside" information fans get is when people are fired and give interviews (or read on some message board or instagram post), but we should remember the context before we commit it to soap opera canon. 

Edited by j swift

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I think Mal Young would've been a better fit for Days or ATWT and GL because they were based (supposedly) in small cities/towns like how EastEnders and Emmerdale are. 

 

 

How was JHC on Port Charles?

 

Wasn't Paul Rauch trying to bring GL back when he died?

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Chris Goutman and John Valente. Chris underneath it all loathed ATWT as a soap and ran it to the ground. Even after its cancellation he continued to trash the legendary soap. JV fired the vets and wanted to make ATWT hip I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:
 
 
 
2
52 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Chris Goutman and John Valente. Chris underneath it all loathed ATWT as a soap and ran it to the ground. Even after its cancellation he continued to trash the legendary soap. JV fired the vets and wanted to make ATWT hip I suppose. 

 

When you say Mr Goutman hated the show would you be referring to the 2008 interview with SOD about Luke when he said "I'm proud of the story. it is a risky story; it will always be risky in our society. But we will continue to tell it, because it's an important story, mulitgenerationally and within the context of the community of Oakdale"? 

https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/27926-sod-atwt-interview-w-barbara-bloom-chris-goutman/

 

Or was it in 2010 with Michael Logan in TV Guide before the cancellation when he said, "Right to the end we will put out the message that life goes on. Long after ATWT is off the air, we want our characters to still be living their lives in the imaginations of the viewers'?

https://www.tvguide.com/news/exclusive-world-turns-1021624/

 

Or maybe you mean the 2010 New York Times article when he said after the cancellation of ATWT, "New York actors found in soaps a combination of training, money and camaraderie that isn’t likely to be replaced"?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/arts/television/07soap.html 

 

Because after a google search I can't find one mention in print to support your hypothesis

Edited by j swift

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4 minutes ago, j swift said:

 

When you say Mr Goutman hated the show would you be referring to the 2008 interview with SOD about Luke when he said "I'm proud of the story. it is a risky story; it will always be risky in our society. But we will continue to tell it, because it's an important story, mulitgenerationally and within the context of the community of Oakdale"? 

https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/27926-sod-atwt-interview-w-barbara-bloom-chris-goutman/

 

Or was it in 2010 with Michael Logan in TV Guide before the cancellation when he said, "Right to the end we will put out the message that life goes on. Long after ATWT is off the air, we want our characters to still be living their lives in the imaginations of the viewers'?

https://www.tvguide.com/news/exclusive-world-turns-1021624/

 

Or maybe you mean the 2010 New York Times article when he said after the cancellation of ATWT, "New York actors found in soaps a combination of training, money and camaraderie that isn’t likely to be replaced"?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/arts/television/07soap.html 

 

Because after a google search I can't find one mention in print to support your hypothesis

It's the interview where he said ATWT was an old soap and had run it course......he didn't seem to give a damn and his comments spoke volumes. 

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1 minute ago, Soapsuds said:

It's the interview where he said ATWT was an old soap and had run it course......he didn't seem to give a damn and his comments spoke volumes. 

Once again I couldn't find that quote, but I did find him saying, "We're trying to bring a 54-year-old show to a satisfactory and emotional wrap-up and to call it difficult would be the understatement of the century," says Goutman. "The loss of this show is tremendous — not just to those of us who make it and for the fans who love it, but for the entire daytime drama industry."  Perhaps you've misremembered it over time.

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8 hours ago, Emma1420 said:

 

JFP had some issues.  The biggest issue with her is that she's overly focused on the men.  The women are expendable if they facilitated a story for the men.  So storylines are built around the men's point of view too often than not, unless there is a strong HW who is female friendly.   However, I'll always give her credit for hiring Michael Zaslow on OLTL after GL fired him.  

 

However, I tend to think a lot of EP's see women as expendable.  Gloria Monty always valued characters (and the actors who played them) like Luke and Robert far more than Laura, Holly, or Anna.   And/or EP's see women as only one of two archetypes.  The angel or the bad girl.  Versus men who could be many shades of gray.  I think that has been an issue across the board with a lot of EP's and writers.

 

 

Very true, but I always had the sense that JFP took a weird delight in punishing female characters and the actresses. I still wonder what happened to the lawsuit Kari Wurher filed about being fired because she was pregnant. JFP liked to always pass the buck when it came time to take blame (although she finally grudgingly took the blame for Ellen Parker years later) but when the same thing happens on every show, it's hard not to notice a pattern. 

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17 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I still wonder what happened to the lawsuit Kari Wurher filed about being fired because she was pregnant.

 

I believe that suit was settled before it went to court, but I have no idea how much the settlement was worth.

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3 hours ago, j swift said:

Once again I couldn't find that quote, but I did find him saying, "We're trying to bring a 54-year-old show to a satisfactory and emotional wrap-up and to call it difficult would be the understatement of the century," says Goutman. "The loss of this show is tremendous — not just to those of us who make it and for the fans who love it, but for the entire daytime drama industry."  Perhaps you've misremembered it over time.

 

I think it was the actors that he hated, tbh.  He treated many of the most senior actors with the least respect.  Eileen Fulton gave a searing interview on how much it hurt to be treated so poorly.  Scott Bryce and Martha Byrne both discussed their time under Goutman.  Byrne seemed so upset she wasn't willing to go back "there", while Bryce tried to be diplomatic in his choice of words but the common denominator was the lack of respect. It was particularly bad with Fulton.  Regardless of what comes out of his mouth, his actions were very telling how he felt about the many of the people who were instrumental to making the series what it was.

And no, I don't take Goutman at his word.  I once freelanced for a T.V. show, so I have seen how insincere some people can be while professing something entirely different.

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