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Worst Executive Producer...

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13 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

And no, I don't take Goutman at his word.  I once freelanced for a T.V. show, so I have seen how insincere some people can be while professing something entirely different.

Obviously none of us were there, but in my opinion, some of those quotes do feel a bit like boilerplate. I could be wrong and he could have been 100 percent genuine, but, well ...

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12 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

I seem to remember Liz Hubbard actually enjoyed working with Goutman, and maybe Colleen Zenk. That's about it for the "old guard".

 

They enjoyed working.  God bless Colleen but if she thinks those horrendous storylines that she had toward the show's end were her best work/storylines as I've seen her quoted as saying, then there's no accounting for taste.

Liz Hubbard wasn't ignored like Eileen Fulton and John and Lucinda did have something of a happy-ish ending but she was under utilized for a period of time.  I think there is too much acceptance by some women 'of a certain age' that they get crumbs of a storyline, even a poorly written one because it beats being ignored altogether.

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2 hours ago, chrisml said:
 
 
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1 hour ago, chrisml said:
 
 
 
32 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Very true, but I always had the sense that JFP took a weird delight in punishing female characters and the actresses.

I don't wish to negate everyone but I also failed to substantiate this argument.

 

She produced Katherine Chancellor's memorial on Y&R.  She produced Lillian's breast cancer on Guiding Light and was praised by Tina Slone in her memoir.  Kim Zimmer honored JFP's efficiency in producing in her memoir.  She saved the jobs of not just Michael Zaslow, but also Jerry Ver Dorn who had heart surgery during a big story on GL.  And she was nominated for 14 Emmys and each year that she was nominated for best show a veteran female from her show was also nominated in an acting category.  

 

1 hour ago, amybrickwallace said:
 
 
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38 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:
 
 
 
3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

I seem to remember Liz Hubbard actually enjoyed working with Goutman, and maybe Colleen Zenk. That's about it for the "old guard".

Don Hastings credited Goutman on his achievements in the final episodes.  Kathryn Hays said in EW, "We had been given six months warning, and our executive producer Chris Goutman absolutely insisted that we veterans drive story all the way to the end."  Also, by making "Nancy Hughes" the author of Oakdale Confidential, he assured Helen Wagner a cut of the licensing fee, thus providing additional income sources for the veteran actor; in my book that's good producing.

 

And don't we tend to believe that Eileen Fulton would only have been satisfied if the finale was a singing dancing extravaganza in Lisa's honor?  And is Martha Byrne a hero for not taking the same paycut as her veteran peers, tanking the ratings by leaving in the final year, and then leaking the story to Page Six thus revealing the salary of her remaining co-stars?

 

My point being, taste is subjective and I keep reading about executive producers who are blamed for storylines that fans found distasteful rather than focusing on those who were actually incompetent.  

Edited by j swift

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I think I read that Goutman convinced Liz to return to the show in 1999 after several months away. She was also quoted as saying, "Take me with you!" when he moved on to his next project. That was in a 2010 issue of SOD covering ATWT's wrap party.

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I think as viewers our perceptions of storylines may be very differeny to actors.

A lot of people may have disliked Barbara's stories but Colleen may have enjoyed being frontburner with scripts that challenged her as an actor.

Maybe she really enjoyed working with the other actors in that story etc

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1 hour ago, Franko said:

Obviously none of us were there, but in my opinion, some of those quotes do feel a bit like boilerplate. I could be wrong and he could have been 100 percent genuine, but, well ...

 

In the words of my favorite drag queen Monique Heart, "facts are facts."  Those are Goutman's quotes, in a variety of sources, discounting the arguments about disrespecting veteran actors and his loathing of ATWT.  If we don't believe what is printed in the New York Times than I don't know who to quote next. 

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1 hour ago, j swift said:

I don't wish to negate everyone but I also failed to substantiate this argument.

 

She produced Katherine Chancellor's memorial on Y&R.  She produced Lillian's breast cancer on Guiding Light and was praised by Tina Slone in her memoir.  She saved the jobs of not just Michael Zaslow, but also Jerry Ver Dorn who had heart surgery during a big story on GL.  And she was nominated for 14 Emmys and each year that she was nominated for best show a veteran female from her show was also nominated in an acting category.  

 

You can disagree with me. That's fine. I never mind people disagreeing as long as they are not name calling. I think she was capable of giving actors good material, but I don't think it negates her misogynistic ways or her clear male bias--thing that happened on every show she's been on. Wasn't KC's memorial roundly criticised? I didn't watch YR then so don't know. Wasn't she and her co-ep or co-hw advocating for a false rape claim story that had to be rewritten? There's no denying JFP could create good material, but I think she was ultimately toxic and toxic at every show. I used to give her credit for the Robert/Eden/Cruz storyline until interviews showed it was forced on her so I can't even give her credit for that. I do think she did a very good job at GL until a certain point where she just ruined the show. 

 

re: ATWT I don't want to wade into the Goutman situation because my viewing of ATWT was spotty as best, but how much of the idiocy was his doing and how much of it was the network or P&G? Has anyone ever said? What did Martha Byrne have to say for ex?

Edited by chrisml

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26 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Wasn't KC's memorial roundly criticised?

No, in fact, it was on Y&R's Emmy submission that year when they won.

 

26 minutes ago, chrisml said:
 
 
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12 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Wasn't she and her co-ep or co-hw advocating for a false rape claim story that had to be rewritten?

You may be thinking of Jack's doppelganger who slept with Phyllis without her consent.  However, that was before JFP was hired at Y&R and her regime actually dealt with the aftermath of that storyline.  Also, she is a producer and not a writer, Pratt was writing for Y&R at the time.

 

26 minutes ago, chrisml said:
 
 
 
14 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I used to give her credit for the Robert/Eden/Cruz storyline until interviews showed it was forced on her so I can't even give her credit for that.

Again, I don't see any interviews to support this theory.  Robert Barr, as played by Roscoe Born was actually hired for a short period, left for pilot season, and then returned.  As noted in SOD this gave writers the opportunity to delve into Robert's background and thus the popular Quinn story was created.  It is also notable for being the only time that Kelly and Eden's relationship was discussed in the plot.  Marcy Walker got her Emmy during JFP's production.  JFP was also instrumental in the use of popular music on soaps.

 

26 minutes ago, chrisml said:
 
 
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18 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I don't think it negates her misogynistic ways or her clear male bias--thing that happened on every show she's been on.

Kim Zimmer had nothing but praise for JFP and her allowing Reva to age in her memoir.  Zimmer also won an Emmy under JFP.  So, this seems to just be conjecture without any fact.  She is in annual attendance at women in media events and has mentored female directors at CBS.

Edited by j swift

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4 minutes ago, j swift said:

You may be thinking of Jack's doppelganger who slept with Phyllis without her consent.  However, that was before JFP was hired at Y&R and her regime actually dealt with the aftermath of that storyline.  Also, she is a producer and not a writer, Pratt was writing for Y&R at the time.

 

Kim Zimmer had nothing but praise for JFP and her allowing Reva to age in her memoir.  Zimmer also won an Emmy under JFP.  So, this seems to just be conjecture without any fact.  

I'm referring to Avery's story (I did not know it was JEssica Collins's story) which a google search indicates I was right about .

 

Kim Zimmer NEVER mentions Phelps in her memoirs. I have her book on kindle and I did a search. I'm not even sure Phelps and Zimmer worked together on GL, but if she did, she didn't include the experience in her memoirs. Ellen Wheeler is mentioned and it's not kind. 

 

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37 minutes ago, chrisml said:
 
 
 
4 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I'm not even sure Phelps and Zimmer worked together on GL

UPI February 1995

 

Kim Zimmer, one of daytime's most popular stars for her role as the conniving Reva Shayne Lewis on 'Guiding Light,' will return to the show after an absence of more than four years.  Although no details about her 'comeback' have been revealed, executive producer Jill Farren Phelps did say Reva's 'presence' will finally allow her old flame, Josh Lewis (played by Robert Newman), to make peace with her loss and give him courage to move on with his life. 

 

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1995/02/07/People/8378792133200/

 

Zimmer's interview with Nelson Branco TV Guide Canada:

 

TVG: Well, it felt like forever. Do you think had Jill Farren Phelps welcomed you back sooner that Reva's journey would have turned out differently?

KZ: No because some wonderful storytelling happened while I was gone during those five years. I read both sides of the fence, and I know some fans thought Reva dominated far too much story when I was there the first time. When I left, GL became more of an ensemble cast and I think there is some truth to that.

Edited by j swift

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45 minutes ago, j swift said:

UPI February 1995

 

Kim Zimmer, one of daytime's most popular stars for her role as the conniving Reva Shayne Lewis on 'Guiding Light,' will return -- briefly -- to the show after an absence of more than four years.  Although no details about her 'comeback' have been revealed, executive producer Jill Farren Phelps did say Reva's 'presence' will finally allow her old flame, Josh Lewis (played by Robert Newman), to make peace with her loss and give him courage to move on with his life. 

 

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1995/02/07/People/8378792133200/

 

Zimmer's interview with Nelson Branco TV Guide Canada:

 

TVG: Well, it felt like forever. Do you think had Jill Farren Phelps welcomed you back sooner that Reva�s journey would have turned out differently?

KZ: No because some wonderful storytelling happened while I was gone during those five years. I read both sides of the fence, and I know some fans thought Reva dominated far too much story when I was there the first time. When I left, GL became more of an ensemble cast � and I think there is some truth to that.

You claimed Zimmer had praised JFP in her memoir. SHE DID NOT. You claimed she said that JFP allowed Reva to age. She NEVER said anything about Phelps in her memoir. I conceded they may have worked together, but I was not sure so I don't know what this news item is meant to prove/disprove. If you're going to quote someone to "disprove" them, quote the entire sentence. You also claimed Zimmer won an Emmy under JFP which she did not. Zimmer won her last emmy under Ellen Wheeler. She won her first three before JFP got there. The only thing I'm interested in is seeing that full interview since the only thing I could find is that excerpt on different sites.

 

Edited by chrisml

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21 minutes ago, chrisml said:

The only thing I'm interested in is seeing that full interview since the only thing I could find is that excerpt (you pasted) on different sites.

It's all in good fun and I promise that I am not pasting any fake JFP news anywhere on the internet - if you see any I am certain it is one of the Russian troll farms, I'm told they're huge Steve Burton/Chuck Pratt fans.

 

I think I am just triggered by the repetition of gossip without considering the sources.  Ex-employees are not reliable to relate their experiences without bias. 

Edited by j swift

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You're doing too much conflating that Russia shít. Don't.

 

Working in the industry (not soaps), I am the first to allow that many of these people are more than one thing and multi-faceted beyond what little we see. I'm sure many people had wonderful interactions with Goutman, I'm sure he did good things, and his longevity in soaps and otherwise going back to his acting days speaks to him not being a total creep. He may well be a lovely man personally. JFP did some good work as well (and has a lot of people BTS who still love her today - and just as many who can't stand her, and claiming her work was not misogynistic and that she did not go out of her way to punish certain unfavorites is a joke). I know people deified him for what he tried to do for AW, and I think back then and in his early years at ATWT he truly cared. I also think that whatever good Goutman did day to day, it could never countenance the complete shitshow of his latter-years tenure at ATWT. Not only his public comments but the show he put on spoke to his complete disinterest in any voice but his own. A handful of boilerplate magazine quotes given to press don't change that - that's what any EP would say.

 

And no, sorry, I will never give him credit for anything in regards to the Martha Byrne debacle.

 

17 hours ago, j swift said:

I think it is important to keep in mind that producers don't write shows.

 

Correction: They aren't supposed to. But they can and have off-book. Mal Young is one of few recent EPs who officially did so. JFP is another who did it off-book at OLTL for a year and ran the show further into the ground, until ABC forced her to hire Megan McTavish who became her glorified stenographer. There are many other cases. The writers at GH are also presently fully under the yoke of Frank Valentini's whims, which was not the case with Ron Carlivati. These days no one cares. But yes - some EPs can and do control the writing at that level, and have many times.

Edited by Vee

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1 hour ago, Vee said:

You're doing too much conflating that Russia shít. Don't.

 

Working in the industry (not soaps), I am the first to allow that many of these people are more than one thing and multi-faceted beyond what little we see. I'm sure many people had wonderful interactions with Goutman, I'm sure he did good things, and his longevity in soaps and otherwise going back to his acting days speaks to him not being a total creep. He may well be a lovely man personally. JFP did some good work as well (and has a lot of people BTS who still love her today - and just as many who can't stand her, and claiming her work was not misogynistic and that she did not go out of her way to punish certain unfavorites is a joke). I know people defied him for what he tried to do for AW, and I think back then and in his early years at ATWT he truly cared. I also think that whatever good Goutman did day to day, it could never countenance the complete shitshow of his latter-years tenure at ATWT. Not only his public comments but the show he put on spoke to his complete disinterest in any voice but his own. A handful of boilerplate magazine quotes given to press don't change that - that's what any EP would say.

 

And no, sorry, I will never give him credit for anything in regards to the Martha Byrne debacle.

 

 

Correction: They aren't supposed to. But they can and have off-book. Mal Young is one of few recent EPs who officially did so

 

THIS! 

 

And I would add Goutman's low-key hostility toward Scott Bryce because Bryce had the 'audacity' to ask questions about his character's trajectory.

 

And I agree that although an EP isn't supposed to write stories, we all know that they can influence them, even when the EP is separate from the HW.  Some use a much lighter touch, choosing to give the writers more autonomy, while others seek to be the 'unseen hand'.

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3 hours ago, Vee said:

He may well be a lovely man personally.

 

*coughs*Nohesnot*coughs*

Edited by Khan

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