Hollywood Sexual Harrasment/Assault Thread

[amybrickwallace]

 

I cried reading that. That guy is just pure slime.

[Juliajms]

^ There are a lot of people at the end who dispute her claim, but that picture speaks for itself. Who does that?

[Khan]

Who does it?  Someone who has to, because no way in Hell would most, INTELLIGENT women give him so much as the time of day.

[amybrickwallace]

 

No woman would give him the time of day if he wasn't a wealthy Oscar-winner. He's short, not exactly handsome, and a narcissistic, misogynistic creep.

 

Speaking of narcissistic, misogynistic creeps, check this out:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/people.com/tv/katie-couric-breaks-silence-on-matt-lauer-sexual-misconduct-allegations/amp/

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

[Khan]

 

Frankly, I wouldn't go even THAT far.  I think most women would look past the accolades and see Dustin Hoffman for exactly what you have described him to be.

[amybrickwallace]

 

You got the key word right there. MOST women.

[DRW50]

 

Dustin Hoffman represents the certain norm of a Hollywood male (from the last years of when being a man in Hollywood/being a movie star had a certain shine to it), or a New York/Hollywood hybrid, of a certain generation I guess. I wasn't all that surprised to see the likes of Alec Baldwin and Michael Rapaport, who probably idolize the likes of Hoffman (who certainly had a better career than either of them ever did or will, especially Rapaport, who mostly just seems to berate NBA associates on social media), getting so upset at John Oliver for calling him out. (Ron Perlman did too, which did disappoint me).

 

There's an idea that men, especially older men, have paid their dues and that they now feel a bit bad (maybe) about past behavior (if they're called out), so they are like the third rail. Even James Toback, who seems to be a horror story, was given that type of odd sympathy by Baldwin. 

 

It's easy to know what to say when cases are clear-cut, but the same liberals who got upset about Trump and assorted Republicans are now queasy with the murkier ground. I read a bizarre article today in the New Yorker, of all places, chastising Democrats for going after Al Franken because this was "rewriting sexual norms" and overstating the seriousness of what he is accused of doing to women. So essentially the New Yorker, of all places, was telling the left not to rock the boat too much, and also basically saying that it's just a liberal thing and they feel pressured to do this because conservatives don't.

 

There's some truth in that, but that isn't enough to keep quiet if someone is accused by 6 or 7 different women. The idea that not keeping quiet is just more of Democrats defeating themselves does nothing but reinforce the same cliquey insider politics that have helped make the party so out of touch. And the misogyny of some of this (with people at "liberal" sites unloading mostly on Kristen Gillibrand, calling her Madame Defarge, so so on) is just another example of the hypocrisy of modern liberalism and why so many people have no desire to interact with the left. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by DRW50

[Vee]

I love Dustin Hoffman's work, and I can believe he (hopefully) regrets what was loathsome, antiquated behavior - same as Al Franken, whose behavior is still in fact quite recent and perhaps less egregious. That doesn't make these incidents any less foul - and while these men are not Harvey Weinstein or Bryan Singer, that doesn't mean their behavior is acceptable, it doesn't mean these women shouldn't be heard and that these men shouldn't be called out. I personally found the John Oliver episode cringeworthy on both sides. I sympathized with Oliver's feelings more than Hoffman's but I don't know that there was any right way to handle any of that. I think the key is that most of us don't know exactly how to handle every one of these, case by case, quite yet.

 

The Franken situation was very sad as I still admire him, but untenable. He had to walk if we were to draw a line with the voters. He'll still be able to do good work, I think, in time, from a different place. As for Dustin Hoffman, I hope he's taking stock of his choices as a man and a professional. He comes out of an era when the Method Actor could do literally anything on a set, especially to women - the Meryl Streep stories from Kramer vs. Kramer have been legend for years, and were simply tolerated. That could never happen today and it shouldn't. I still admire his work but he's got soul-searching to do.

 

ETA: The Rosseter account is worse than I thought. Ugh.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Vee

[DramatistDreamer]

Well, I'm looking at it from the side of a woman who has been sexually harassed and undermined by a man.  

We hear the resumes of the men and we are hand-wringing about how to regard them and their work (which is fair) but when are we going to start hearing the stories of the women whose careers were upended by this type of systematic belittling based on gender? When will we really start to regard the cost of all that creative work that was never create and therefore lost to us?

What about the women whose paths were made harder or even blocked? What about those of us who were so discouraged, disheartened that we didn't live up to our full potential because of the "gate-keepers" who wrecked our confidence?

Yes, I include myself because I very much had to deal with a least one or two men who I had hoped would be a mentor who just saw me as a potential 'side piece' or bed partner, had no interest in a mentoring role (only if you consider 'sugar daddy' some type of mentoring role).

There are countless stories of women that I know, talented women who gave up because they had to deal with too much B.S. and they got weary.

That is truly the sad part of this story.  This is where my sympathies are and remain.

At the very least, all of these men had access, opportunities and time to build their careers.  Many of those women who drifted away from building their careers...didn't.

Edited December 9, 2017 by DramatistDreamer

[JaneAusten]

I’m glad you said it.  It’s been very uncomfortable seeing people ( not here because I feel like I know those who pot here) but many being so protective of so many of these people. The Woody Allen defenders, Polanski, and even those like Hoffman, with the rational of great art. These same people turn.a blind eye to Casey Affleck and How the entire industry jumped on the awards bandwagon for him due to his “great performance”. But how many talent people across industries might have been able to rise  higher or even rise, if not for this blatant abuse of power.

 

I watched the Hoffman tape with Oliver and all I could feel was nauseous at  Hoffman’s responses. It wasn’t the time to discuss this when is. It’s what you hear whenever people are uncomfortable. Read about the civil rights mvmt and all the questioning by many of why blacks did it this way or this way or disrupted this, why? Because it made them uncomfortable. If Hoffman and the folks listening and sitting there were uncomfortable for an hour boo hoo. Try 40 or 50 years of tolerating much worse.

 

and the Al Franken issue. As a white women, they are all out there showing who they are. So up in arms over this while crucifying Kirsten Gillabrand. I want to remind these white women that they also had no issue overwhelmingly voting for Bill Clinton and Donald Trump while turning their backs on Hillary. Franken is no Ghandi. He’s a multimillionaire , and no matter how well intentioned, that photo would have been used against him. And while I’ve been easier on Franken, I see no issue with asking him to step down. There is nothing saying in the midst of an investigation more women would not have come forward. I’m hoping he’s proactive and uses this experience to educate and help.

[I Am A Swede]

I have to admit that I've been partly guilty of that. When Roman Polanski was arrested in Switzerland and there was dicussion about extraditing him to the US to stand trail my first thought was: "Why don't they just let it go? It's been so long, stop harassing this man, He's been through enough anyway". But then I thought about it and felt deeply ashamed of myself. He raped a girl, and he should have to face the consequences for what he did, just as she has had to do since then.

I also have to admit that I really don't want some of the rumours I've read in this thread to be true, like the ones about Steven Spielberg. And I would be completely crushed if there were accusations about someone like Peter Jackson, whose Tolkien movies are some of my all-time favourite movies. So in a way I can understand why someone would defend these men. Like I said I had the same gut reaction when it came to Polanski, and he's not even someone I particularly care about. So I can imagine how hard it would be if it was someone you've admired who turned  out to be a criminal who could do things like this. 

Hopefully all this will change now. I know that I have changed at least.

[JaneAusten]

I don't think you're wrong. Reacting based on how you felt and how culture was at the time. I had empathy for Polanski at one time, but when I think back, much of it was media driven. not that elements of his life are not tragic, but they used that to overshadow the rape. I think very few people knew or know that at the time, while many feel the judge potentially backing out of a plea agreement(the judge had never agreed to it to begin with), his rational that how the judge I believe was rumored to rule, was that he didn't feel Polanski felt any remorse and would do it again. That was based on reports from the mental health facility Polanski went into. Well he did rape again? And I am pretty sure there were rumors about he and Natassia Kinski(well her father is a creep also)

 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-entertainment-news-updates-roman-polanski-accused-of-raping-german-1507133265-htmlstory.html

 

I encourage you to reed that op-ed I posted several posts back by Dylan Farrow. This is a new one and she talks about how Woody Allen used the media to his advantage also. Not that Mia Farrow doesn't have her own issues, but the entire scandal was turned to Allen's advantage IMO while Farrow has been blackened. Neither one is a saint and the facts she pointed out in her op-ed are things that I don't recall having ever been disclosed about the case against him and what legal authorities believed at the time, much different than they dropped it due to lack of believability and evidence. These people have also influenced our legal system to their advantage. Heck look how Weinstein got that case to disappear a few years back by a simple campaign donation to the Manhattan DA.

 

As for Spielberg, I believe it. He's one of the men Corey Feldman I believe pointed to without mentioning names.  Will that come out? Who knows.

Edited December 9, 2017 by JaneAusten

[DramatistDreamer]

By the way, I do recognize that there are levels. I don't regard Franken to be near the same level as Weinstein or uh Trump.

Franken, at the very least expressed shame which I don't believe Weinstein feels, certainly Trump feels no shame as he as bragged about it.

 

Until I have reason to doubt his sincerity, I will take Franken at his word that he intends to 'do the work' required to make amends and bring more light to this issue, particularly how it affects women and helps in bringing about improvements. That personal work will have to be done on his own, as it will for any other man who has in any way harassed or undermined women and wants to make amends.

 

I feel there should be space for everyone to bring about reform, not least of all, in themselves. Men from all walks of life need to be involved in the process of making fundamental change, provided that they are sincere. We need men to be involved. I am in no way trying to imply that we leave men out of the process-- that would be foolish.

I am simply (not so simply) stating that I think that the women (including those who have not come forward) who didn't get the opportunities to reach their potential due to sexual harassment, assaults, intimidation haven't been considered as much as the fallen men and that needs to change. 

[amybrickwallace]

Yes, and what's the real fall-out for Matt Lauer? He's rich enough to never have to work again, and has all the time in the world to play golf in the Hamptons? What about the women he abused? They are scarred and will carry those scars one way or the other for the rest of their lives. It's so not fair.