I agree with Carl that it's often "gay panic". OLTL's purge of 2009 still irks me when they dumped the black people and the gay people. I think the soaps don't have a clue what their audience wants to see. So what if some people don't like it? That's too bad. We live in a world where all of these people exist. Don't like it? Don't watch. But the ratings argument has never really flown with me. It's really not that much of a drop. Maybe it's the shitty and offensive storylines you write?

 

I feel bad for Carnes because he often mentions he wants to work and he gets asked about daily it seems about his whereabouts and why he isn't on GH. Not to mention the ties Lucas has to so many people on the canvas.

4 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

I agree with Carl that it's often "gay panic". OLTL's purge of 2009 still irks me when they dumped the black people and the gay people. I think the soaps don't have a clue what their audience wants to see. So what if some people don't like it? That's too bad. We live in a world where all of these people exist. Don't like it? Don't watch. But the ratings argument has never really flown with me. It's really not that much of a drop. Maybe it's the shitty and offensive storylines you write?

 

I feel bad for Carnes because he often mentions he wants to work and he gets asked about daily it seems about his whereabouts and why he isn't on GH. Not to mention the ties Lucas has to so many people on the canvas.

 

This is just typical of society at large - gays and minorities are always the first to be blamed for election losses as well. It's easy and safe. The soaps need to believe that they have to chase after so-called "normal" viewers and that's how they will get by. They've been doing this for over 20 years - pandering to bigots - and their ratings have tumbled and tumbled. Yet it just keeps on, and will keep on until the last soap is finally beheaded and burned. 

 

I feel bad for Carnes, but then a part of me wonders why he never really got more work, especially compared to plastic-boobed, frozen-faced dullards like Jesse Metcalfe. But that's how the industry is. Rarely about talent or appeal. 

Agreed. I mean, I'm sure Carnes is doing just fine. For some reason he has been in Mexico doing something or other. I don't post on Twitter but I follow people. He's one I follow so I often see when he posts anything that someone asks him why he's not on GH. It's like clockwork.

 

I don't understand the industry and their focus on some people and not others. But you said it best that it's rarely about talent or appeal. He's not plastic.

 

You also said it best about the ratings. They keep tumbling and tumbling. So clearly, what they're doing isn't and hasn't been working. Sally Sussman stated it best that the soaps are still stuck in the 80s. The early 90s I feel like GH with their social issues was actually a very modern soap while still capturing what makes a soap work. Sure it got depressing but now? I feel embarassed watching a soap anymore. They're cringeworthy bad. They're a joke. And I hate typing those words about a genre I love but it's true. I mean, Talk Soup didn't make fun of the soaps just because they're soaps. They were made fun of because they deserved to be made fun of. They're often bad.

 

And I hate saying that because I know the people behind the scenes do hard work (directors, tech guys, etc.) and most actors put in very hard work daily that goes unappreciated, but they haven't been allowed to evolve. Look at AMC and OLTL. People threw their arms up but if they came out now? I think they'd be looked at differently. Once again they were a bit ahead of their time going to the internet.

 

And one of the biggest problems: hiring people who DON'T care about evolving the drama. Head writers who get recycled after being fired multiple times for bad ratings. They need to hire producers and writers who care about the genre and want to evolve it. They need to breed new talent. They aren't. Someone who cares goes a very long way. The producers and writers for AMC and OLTL 2.0 cared.

38 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

You also said it best about the ratings. They keep tumbling and tumbling. So clearly, what they're doing isn't and hasn't been working. Sally Sussman stated it best that the soaps are still stuck in the 80s. The early 90s I feel like GH with their social issues was actually a very modern soap while still capturing what makes a soap work. Sure it got depressing but now? I feel embarassed watching a soap anymore. They're cringeworthy bad. They're a joke. And I hate typing those words about a genre I love but it's true. I mean, Talk Soup didn't make fun of the soaps just because they're soaps. They were made fun of because they deserved to be made fun of. They're often bad.

 

And I hate saying that because I know the people behind the scenes do hard work (directors, tech guys, etc.) and most actors put in very hard work daily that goes unappreciated, but they haven't been allowed to evolve. Look at AMC and OLTL. People threw their arms up but if they came out now? I think they'd be looked at differently. Once again they were a bit ahead of their time going to the internet.

 

When soaps started believing the viewers were idiots they lost them. They think viewers are absolute morons. They have no respect for their intelligence or worth. You saw that with Frons, you saw it with ego trip MAB, Sheffer, "Cartini." You saw it with their flunkies, like Nellie Oleson, the DC group, Hinsey, etc. It doesn't take much to pretend you respect viewers - even con artists like Dr. Oz manage it. Yet it was just too much. People who had their flaws but at least respected viewers, like Wendy Riche or Linda Gottlieb, were run out.

 

The best soaps from 20 years ago, 25 years ago, feel far more modern than anything in daytime now. They hold up far better. And they had individual identities. I don't know what GH's identity or point is now. The best I can come up with is - "We're still on the air," and "We've been worse." And they have been worse, the show is watchable at times when I sit through it sometimes, but that's likely about the best they'll manage. 

 

And yes, fear of change is a big factor too. The "press" and a lot of viewers lashed out at the PP soaps because they didn't want to face anything that was a threat to what they knew. I imagine they'd do it again.

 

It's probably too late now, but I still think a soap, even in the current format, that tried to treat viewers with respect and tried to appeal to various groups and yes was also entertaining - it could find an audience, and with all the different forms of marketing now, make a profit even without good ratings. 

Edited December 16, 20168 yr by DRW50

16 hours ago, KMan101 said:

Agnes Nixon wrote Bianca's coming out. I will not give Jean credit for Bianca's coming out.

 

15 hours ago, cassadine1991 said:

That was Agnes Nixon, what you just said is sacrilege 

THANK YOU

 

Ratings are not tumbling that couldnt be more false. They have stayed in 2.6 to 2.7 range all year and thats the truth i am telling u. If PP AMC and OLTL were such successes where are they know. I am sick of people calling Jean P a recycked writer. She has been in biz 25 years. Jean has bern head writer OLTL, AW, AMC, ATWT, YR and GH. That is six soaps she has head written. Kman u are starting to sound like Joy Behar has about the election and DT. The show is a success.

 

Edited December 16, 20168 yr by JONNYSBRO

53 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

When soaps started believing the viewers were idiots they lost them. They think viewers are absolute morons. They have no respect for their intelligence or worth. You saw that with Frons, you saw it with ego trip MAB, Sheffer, "Cartini." You saw it with their flunkies, like Nellie Oleson, the DC group, Hinsey, etc. It doesn't take much to pretend you respect viewers - even con artists like Dr. Oz manage it. Yet it was just too much. People who had their flaws but at least respected viewers, like Wendy Riche or Linda Gottlieb, were run out.

 

The best soaps from 20 years ago, 25 years ago, feel far more modern than anything in daytime now. They hold up far better. And they had individual identities. I don't know what GH's identity or point is now. The best I can come up with is - "We're still on the air," and "We've been worse." And they have been worse, the show is watchable at times when I sit through it sometimes, but that's likely about the best they'll manage. 

 

And yes, fear of change is a big factor too. The "press" and a lot of viewers lashed out at the PP soaps because they didn't want to face anything that was a threat to what they knew. I imagine they'd do it again.

 

It's probably too late now, but I still think a soap, even in the current format, that tried to treat viewers with respect and tried to appeal to various groups and yes was also entertaining - it could find an audience, and with all the different forms of marketing now, make a profit even without good ratings. 

 

Everyone needs to read this post. I got nothing to add because you stated it all so well.

GH was preemptied today because of President Obama's news conference! They ran a GH rerun from last month before Obama's news conference aired!

1 hour ago, CBRVA83 said:

GH was preemptied today because of President Obama's news conference! They ran a GH rerun from last month before Obama's news conference aired!

I was changing the channels and for a minute there I thought Obama was appearing on GH.....LOL

I FFwd through the whole week, mostly. I watched a bit here and there. I liked seeing Felicia and Laura in Thursday's episode. I keep forgetting that Laura's back on the show.

I agree

7 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Everyone needs to read this post. I got nothing to add because you stated it all so well.

I also wanted to mention that I liked DRW50's heartfelt post concerning treating the viewers with respect, however, I do have some things to add.  I remember seeing a bit of the Emmy Show where the PP version of OLTL was nominated for its last time, and its producer, Jennifer Pepperman gave an interview, where she said in so many words, "Soaps are not "daytime" anymore, they're ANYTIME now".  I have to agree with that.  I watch GH on Hulu because I no longer have cable service.  Intelligence and respect for the viewer is needed, I absolutely agree, but along with that, a whole new way of measuring the number of viewers and a better way to calculate the revenue soaps could generate.  I think there are far more viewers than the networks realized, but I wonder if there is a good and verifiable way to prove it.  I don't think they took the "anytime factor" into account when they cancelled GL and ATWT.  Especially ATWT had a lot of life in it and story left to tell.  And, it could have been a source of revenue AND great drama, somehow, some way.

 

33 minutes ago, victorlord75 said:

I agree

I also wanted to mention that I liked DRW50's heartfelt post concerning treating the viewers with respect, however, I do have some things to add.  I remember seeing a bit of the Emmy Show where the PP version of OLTL was nominated for its last time, and its producer, Jennifer Pepperman gave an interview, where she said in so many words, "Soaps are not "daytime" anymore, they're ANYTIME now".  I have to agree with that.  I watch GH on Hulu because I no longer have cable service.  Intelligence and respect for the viewer is needed, I absolutely agree, but along with that, a whole new way of measuring the number of viewers and a better way to calculate the revenue soaps could generate.  I think there are far more viewers than the networks realized, but I wonder if there is a good and verifiable way to prove it.  I don't think they took the "anytime factor" into account when they cancelled GL and ATWT.  Especially ATWT had a lot of life in it and story left to tell.  And, it could have been a source of revenue AND great drama, somehow, some way.

 

I remember so many people (soap media included) totally side-eyed her and gave her dirty looks when she said that

Edited December 16, 20168 yr by cassadine1991

56 minutes ago, cassadine1991 said:

I remember so many people (soap media included) totally side-eyed her and gave her dirty looks when she said that

I missed that part, but I believe she was absolutely right, and she would be the one to know.  She was out of a job because the impact of her work was not properly measured.

1 hour ago, victorlord75 said:

I agree

I also wanted to mention that I liked DRW50's heartfelt post concerning treating the viewers with respect, however, I do have some things to add.  I remember seeing a bit of the Emmy Show where the PP version of OLTL was nominated for its last time, and its producer, Jennifer Pepperman gave an interview, where she said in so many words, "Soaps are not "daytime" anymore, they're ANYTIME now".  I have to agree with that.  I watch GH on Hulu because I no longer have cable service.  Intelligence and respect for the viewer is needed, I absolutely agree, but along with that, a whole new way of measuring the number of viewers and a better way to calculate the revenue soaps could generate.  I think there are far more viewers than the networks realized, but I wonder if there is a good and verifiable way to prove it.  I don't think they took the "anytime factor" into account when they cancelled GL and ATWT.  Especially ATWT had a lot of life in it and story left to tell.  And, it could have been a source of revenue AND great drama, somehow, some way.

 

 

Excellent points as well. I agree with her that they're "anytime" now. It wasn't a dig at the genre itself. She was absolutely correct. Especially with DVR usage now so high. Daytime encompasses apparently morning shows and court shows and talk shows and game shows. It's a broad "genre" now. Soaps are soaps are soaps. That's not going to change.

 

I don't know why they apparently don't take into account streaming. Maybe the do? I really don't know.

 

But it's clear that many want to stay stuck with how it was. Most everyone wants change but then fears that change at the same time even if change and evolution is needed in order to survive.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFossil/status/809816559648505856/photo/1

 

How cute and adorable is this. Our wonderful head writers having a goofy time at the GH holiday party. Female power rocks. Go Queen P and Supergem Shelly.