Empire: Discussion Thread

[YRBB]

The first two episodes weren't exactly pro Jamal. They simply weren't anti Jamal. It helped that Daniels & Strong wrote them. They were fairly balanced and continued to explore Hakeem.

As soon as episode three rolled on, suddenly Hakeem was clearly the one the scripts favored--and it was unnecessary, too (yes, this was unnecessary) considering he is hella interesting and fascinating and his antics don't need propping to be liked. Maybe they feared he wouldn't be supported by the audience, I don't know. But this hasn't been going on for one episode but THREE.

Let's see how things develop.

[ajsp35801]

I disagree here. Until this past episode I didn't like Hakeem AT ALL and failed to see how anyone else would. The writing did him no favors and neither does the actor's arrogance. The last two episodes did wonders for his likability. I still don't have the same connection to him that I do Jamal and I doubt I ever will. Jamal has a special place in my heart so I am sure this is my bias talking here.

I thought that the first 3 episodes were great for Jamal. They were clearly written in his favor. I thought he was going to be the pet of all pets. And I was happy with that because you rarely get to see marginalized people as pets on a damn show that is mainstream and popular. I was hoping the entire show would continue to revolve around him and whatever he had going. And I make no apologies for not caring if the show was balanced in Hakeem or Andre's favor. However, I have no desire to see a show revolve around Hakeem. First of all, the actor can't carry it. So I really hope you are wrong because he is the least interesting character of the ENTIRE set. Christ on a cracker!

[Vee]

I think you're wrong, Chit, but I know better than to try to bulldoze you with an argument when you have your mind made up. At least this isn't like when you were trying to cut for Franco on GH. That one's between you and God.

[ChitHappens]

I was not trying to cut for that clown. I was just saying what could be done with a writer and EP in place and not those 2 bozos masquerading as such. But I don't wish to pollute this thread with that rancid duo...

[KMan101]

I agree that Hakeem wasn't very sympathetic at all. I guess in a lot of ways it's why I was happy to see Jamal punch him in the gut. It has nothing to do with who's better or better written between Jamal and Hakeem to me. I think they're both flawed and I liked the contrast of how Jamal is "slumming it" and Hakeem is spoiled, partying and living it up in a cushy life with everything handed to him (yes, I remember Jamal had a cushy apartment and everything handed to him too in the beginning). It's clear the contrast they're going for.

I just like that we are actually having a discussion. That to me is good writing, getting us to talk and debate these characters and the writing.

I still don't agree that Andre was truly concerned about Jamal. It came off to me like he turned on the concern and acted surprised something happened when we know he wasn't surprised at all a robbery went down. I don't know. I think they could have explored that better and I don't find Andre as well developed as the others. That being said they are showing us why he is the way he is by having Lucious and Cookie basically dismiss him at every turn.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Jamal wanting acceptance and love from Lucious but it's like anything in life, there comes a point where you can't let anyone control you and yes Jamal isn't taking Lucious's money but Lucious still has control over Jamal. Jamal should want to succeed because he knows he is talented and he should want to do well not because it will suddenly make his father accept him. I wouldn't feel differently if it was based on something other than his sexuality. I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I just don't think you need to go through life basing everything on getting someone's approval. I don't know. I'm not really explaining my thoughts on this very well. I know we all want a parents love and support. I know it drives stories on soap operas but in life, it shouldn't drive you. Again, I don't think I'm explaining this well. Basically what Lucious thinks shouldn't matter to Jamal. But yes, it drives story. Again, I'd feel the same way if Jamal weren't gay, or were accepted by Lucious and his father wanted him to rap.

And Drip Drop? That song? Seriously? LOL. Oy.

[ChitHappens]

But Kman, was Drip Drop worse than any other rap song out there? I don't listen to rap (with the exception of Flo Rida), and those songs are the same as what Hakeem sang. It was very mainstream.

[KMan101]

Yeah, that's true. I'm not that big into rap either but I just sort of laughed at the song and how everyone was acting like it was just sooo good. LOL

[VirginiaHamilton]

Five episodes in and it's official to me that Baby Wipes is the weak link of the show. Barring the fact that his woman-hating ass makes my skin crawl, I don't buy for a second that his quivering voice-having ass is the menacing Puffy-inspired label head that this show wants me to see him as. Add the fact that he has the charisma of a box of hair and absolutely zero sex appeal whatsoever (seriously, I'm dreading the day that this show airs him in any kind of love scene because I know that my dinner will end up splattered on my carpet) and it makes me sad as hell that the producers weren't able to work something out with Wesley Snipes (or hell, any other superior Blacktor in Hollywood).

On another note, that knucklehead, Hakeem, is starting to grow on me. Will he piss me off in the future? Sure, but at least they're giving me a reason for me to care about what happens to him.

Edited February 6, 2015 by VirginiaHamilton

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Quietly I find Hakeep pretty attractive....but hes so young. And he does say some ignorant stuff.

Andre is hottest and Jamal and Hakeem are equally hot but in different ways. No one said nothing about Saint Hakeem tho. I just think Jamal was being way to aggressive for what was going on in that scene.

That's my shallow post of the day....

Edited February 6, 2015 by ThePrinceOfSunspear

[VirginiaHamilton]

I'm so glad that you spoke the truth of the matter. I found this hate far more disheartening than the typical homophobic trolling that I'd expected, honestly.

Edited February 6, 2015 by VirginiaHamilton

[MoTheGreat]

Who is he standing up to? Hakeem been by his side. When Hakeem does something wrong to Jamal then he can stand up for himself. I bet Jamal won't do what he did to Hakeem to his father.

[MoTheGreat]

I can't wait to see how aggressive Jamal going to be when he finds out Andre did it. Wouldn't it be nice if Hakeem start writing a rap song about how Jamal is a bully. In other words a serious rap song.

[marceline]

I just realized why I find this Jamal/Hakeem baby fan war so fascinating. It's rare that a fan war doesn't involve women or romance.

I fully expected people to start picking sides on Anika vs. Cookie but I sure didn't expect folks to start coming for each other over the brothers. At least not like this. I figured people would start to pick sides over who they want to run Empire.

That said, I think the show would benefit from more interaction between the brothers. A lot more. Whoever said that the writing was meant to benefit Jamal was right. He was the right character to introduce us to this universe and the people that inhabit it but we need to flesh out the other two. Until that happens, I can't pick sides. We learned a lot about Andre from his flashback last week. We need to learn more about Hakeem too. If I had one recommendation to make to this show for the rest of this season and the next it would be to focus more on the brothers as they relate to each other instead of just how they relate to Cookie and Lucious.

[Cheap21]

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[NothinButAttitude]

Yaasss! That's my jam! Get it, Hakeem!