We're just fortunate Gary Coleman passed on when he did, or else Maria would've had him as her Nate.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by BetterForgotten

We're just fortunate Gary Coleman passed on when he did, or else Maria would've had him as her Nate.

DEAD.

Because it's true--and COMPLETELY plausible.

You are absolutely right. There is NO way to fix this mess without jumping through several irrational hoops. How does one even bring Brad and Colleen back, for example, without writing an even more implausible story? I think that whole magical island thing has crossed many people's minds but, if Y&R ever goes there, it will destroy that last thread of dignity and reality that the show has left & there will be NO going back. Because, miraculously, the viewers still don't expect Y&R to do something like that, and it hasn't.

It's funny you mention resetting the show back to 2003. Back when LML was reigning supreme, I kept thinking about the "it was all a dream" scenario and how I would have been tempted, were I to write the show, to go back to 2003, before Jill & Katherine's great mother/daughter twist (note a heavy dose of sarcasm) and pick up from there. Of course, it would have been a disaster and I would have never gone there, and the viewers would balk. But it's funny I'm not the only one who's sort of dreamed about that.

For all the horrible mistakes JFP's made, her Y&R is the most solid Y&R since Smith (with the possible exception of JG's first HW term, but I can't be bothered to remember much about it except for Adam's introduction). Not that that says a lot but she hasn't presided over any stories that are actively hurting the show (yes, even Delia's death).

But there's still time....

Yeah, the magical island would be too much even for Y&R. It's so sad because Y&R used to be the only show that didn't do ghosts and this other crap. Amnesia, plastic surgery, and doppelgangers were used very sparingly, and there was almost no coming back from the dead unless it was made very clear to the audience that the body was never found. That has all been shot to hell now. I'm not a big fan of JFP but I think she gets a bad rap. The show was pretty good in early 2013, is boring and unwatchable now, but I will take that over cartoonish and also unwatchable from LML and MAB. If the new writers don't know wtf they're doing, I'd rather they write a bunch of boring conversations while they figure it out, instead of deciding the show has to be action-packed with shootings and people escaping from the loony bin every day.

One thing I wonder is if Bill Bell were around, would be able to fix all of this?

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by BoldRestless

I think Y&R can be fixed by bringing in vital, strong new characters, and a few links to the past (specifically, Y&R's first decade), and phasing out most of the Newmans and Abbotts, who are, to me, dead weight, with a few exceptions, and have been for a decade or more.

I think that's what Bill Bell might have done.

I don't think it will happen though.

Yeah, the magical island would be too much even for Y&R. It's so sad because Y&R used to be the only show that didn't do ghosts and this other crap. Amnesia, plastic surgery, and doppelgangers were used very sparingly, and there was almost no coming back from the dead unless it was made very clear to the audience that the body was never found. That has all been shot to hell now.

The show knew how to use OTT soap cliches to its advantage & it was usually done with class, smarts, sparingly (as you said) and with good reason. And I always appreciated the fact that a death on the show really meant something. I may hate that Colleen and Brad are dead but I sure am glad they have never been resurrected. But then they brought Phillip back, which is a move Y&R would have never in a million years ever considered.

I'm not a big fan of JFP but I think she gets a bad rap. The show was pretty good in early 2013, is boring and unwatchable now, but I will take that over cartoonish and also unwatchable from LML and MAB. If the new writers don't know wtf they're doing, I'd rather they write a bunch of boring conversations while they figure it out, instead of deciding the show has to be action-packed with shootings and people escaping from the loony bin every day.

Agreed.

One thing I wonder is if Bill Bell were around, would be able to fix all of this?

IMO, the only way to move on from now is to, simply, move on. Those that are dead, are dead. Minimal to no rewriting of past mistakes. Take whatever legacy stories & characters that you can and simply adjust the writing as if most of the previous stories never happened. They cannot address the mistakes because bringing it all up & trying to fix it will only lead to more problems.

I think Y&R can be fixed by bringing in vital, strong new characters, and a few links to the past (specifically, Y&R's first decade), and phasing out most of the Newmans and Abbotts, who are, to me, dead weight, with a few exceptions, and have been for a decade or more.

I think that's what Bill Bell might have done.

I don't think it will happen though.

Bell wouldn't have let the Newmans and Abbotts fall into the mess they are now in the first place & even if it were out of his hand, he wouldn't have written them out. Never in a million years. They would still be strong, leading families.

And the vets playing them are the only thing that has kept the show afloat. The only thing.

The reason the Newmans and Abbotts seem like dead weight is because they have been written out of character for a decade and they have been given mostly terrible stories. Pair those two things with their long history and it bogs them down under people who don't know how to utilize them properly.

It is not an expression of the characters' viability but a result of the writing. Change the writing & they will suddenly all work (minus Victoria. You can't make dead wood work).

I like the idea of bringing in strong new characters (which is the only option they have since legacy characters have mostly been ruined) and maybe someone connected to Jill's 70s past, although I'm pretty sure Bell had good reason for writing all these people out. But calling for a huge cast overhaul (which is what purging the Newmans and Abbotts would do) would be a huge risk even if Bell was writing, let alone now under decidedly less skilled writers. I shudder at the disaster this would bring.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by YRBB

The Newmans & Abbotts don't need to be written out.

All they need is good writing & a recast Victoria.

Btw wasnt Maria arena bells ultimate goal shictor. She wuved them.

Bell wouldn't have let the Newmans and Abbotts fall into the mess they are now in the first place & even if it were out of his hand, he wouldn't have written them out. Never in a million years. They would still be strong, leading families.

And the vets playing them are the only thing that has kept the show afloat. The only thing.

The reason the Newmans and Abbotts seem like dead weight is because they have been written out of character for a decade and they have been given mostly terrible stories. Pair those two things with their long history and it bogs them down under people who don't know how to utilize them properly.

It is not an expression of the characters' viability but a result of the writing. Change the writing & they will suddenly all work (minus Victoria. You can't make dead wood work).

I like the idea of bringing in strong new characters (which is the only option they have since legacy characters have mostly been ruined) and maybe someone connected to Jill's 70s past, although I'm pretty sure Bell had good reason for writing all these people out. But calling for a huge cast overhaul (which is what purging the Newmans and Abbotts would do) would be a huge risk even if Bell was writing, let alone now under decidedly less skilled writes. I shudder at the disaster this would bring.

I thought the debate was about what Bell would do about current Y&R, not about whether it would have happened under his watch.

For me, MTS is the main Newman vet who keeps things chugging along. I also realize that Eric Braeden is Y&R to many people. And I have enjoyed Eileen Davidson's work in recent years. I also love Beth Maitland.

Beyond that - I don't really care for most of what Peter Bergman has done as Jack in recent years, and if rumors about some of his story views are true, then I don't think he's done the role any favors. I also feel like Adam, Victoria, and Nick have reached the end of the line, although I'd bring Victoria back, maybe, after a rest, with a strong recast.

I'm willing to give David Tom a chance and see if he can salvage Billy.

I don't really care about any of the 20something Newmans and Abbotts, but I think most of them are just taking up space.

To me these families are just chokehorses, but it's difficult to have new people to replace them because most of the new people or families tend to suck (Baldwins), or the other potential old core families were demolished (Williams - although there's still hope for Steve's branch I guess).

I thought the debate was about what Bell would do about current Y&R, not about whether it would have happened under his watch.

Yes, I am perfectly aware of what the debate was about and the second half of my response was directly related to that. You said you thought he would have written the Abbotts & Newmans out and I responded that he would have never let it get to that point unless it were out of his hand and, were he in a position to fix the show, he would not have written them out.

For me, MTS is the main Newman vet who keeps things chugging along. I also realize that Eric Braeden is Y&R to many people. And I have enjoyed Eileen Davidson's work in recent years. I also love Beth Maitland.

Beyond that - I don't really care for most of what Peter Bergman has done as Jack in recent years, and if rumors about some of his story views are true, then I don't think he's done the role any favors. I also feel like Adam, Victoria, and Nick have reached the end of the line, although I'd bring Victoria back, maybe, after a rest, with a strong recast.

I'm willing to give David Tom a chance and see if he can salvage Billy.

I don't really care about any of the 20something Newmans and Abbotts, but I think most of them are just taking up space.

To me these families are just chokehorses, but it's difficult to have new people to replace them because most of the new people or families tend to suck (Baldwins), or the other potential old core families were demolished (Williams - although there's still hope for Steve's branch I guess).

Well, then, I don't understand what the problem is. Younger Abbotts and Newmans aside like you said, these two families comprise of Jack, Ashley, Traci, Billy, Victor, Nikki, Victoria, Nick and I'm adding Sharon.

By your own admission, Ashley, Traci, potentially Billy and Victoria, Victor and Nikki can be or are viable. That's 6 out of 8!

Your personal taste for PB's work aside, so is Jack. Bergman's issues with some of Jack's stories are only "known" to a handful of internet posters and are only a small part of Jack's overall history, so I don't see why it should be taken into account regarding keeping the character on board.

Adam has almost always been an abomination and not really a part of the characters we are discussing to begin with (mostly because the timelines have been so screwed).

Nick is what Nick always was--there. Morrow's harmless and his relationship/family with Sharon saves him. Again, better writing would give him purpose.

Of course I agree about the younger ones. They have been terribly cast and written even worse. So the show has no option but to depend on the members of the family that ARE there. The show has far bigger issues than the Abbotts or Newmans.

Yes, I am perfectly aware of what the debate was about and the second half of my response was directly related to that. You said you thought he would have written the Abbotts & Newmans out and I responded that he would have never let it get to that point unless it were out of his hand and, were he in a position to fix the show, he would not have written them out.

I got the impression you thought I was saying the same thing would have happened to Y&R if Bill Bell had still been in charge. My apologies.

Well, then, I don't understand what the problem is. Younger Abbotts and Newmans aside like you said, these two families comprise of Jack, Ashley, Traci, Billy, Victor, Nikki, Victoria, Nick and I'm adding Sharon.

By your own admission, Ashley, Traci, potentially Billy and Victoria, Victor and Nikki can be or are viable. That's 6 out of 8!

True enough. It's tough to count some of them, like Traci, because I don't think Y&R will ever let her be more than a recurring guest role. Ashley also seems to have become that, although I guess that could change, as it has in the past.

Sharon - I don't know what to say about her. I'm not being sarcastic. I don't.

Your personal taste for PB's work aside, so is Jack. Bergman's issues with some of Jack's stories are only "known" to a handful of internet posters and are only a small part of Jack's overall history, so I don't see why it should be taken into account regarding keeping the character on board.

The same reason any rumors about what an actor likes or doesn't like is taken into account. This happened with Stafford, happens with Case, Morrow, Braeden, etc.

My problem with Jack, beyond my disliking most of Bergman's work in recent years, is that I'm just not interested in most of his relationships. I don't think they're viable. I like his interaction with Jill, but most of the rest, I feel like either the actor chemistry isn't there, or the show has destroyed the bonds through years of bad writing choices. And I don't think the character is strong enough to be put into fresh circumstances. I basically see a middle-aged man crying as his dead father verbally abuses him over his latest engagement.

I don't know where this character can go.

Nick is what Nick always was--there. Morrow's harmless and his relationship/family with Sharon saves him. Again, better writing would give him purpose.

I think this worked for Morrow years ago, but now, he's someone else where I feel like most of the character relationships are at a dead end and the actor isn't really able to change that, if he's even trying. I feel like a character like this mostly serves a purpose if you can build on his history and see how that influences him and his kids. He and his kids and the people around them are so vapid, it's going to take a lot of work, work which I don't see happening, to change that. Instead you have a guy with two grown kids who is in pissing contests with yet another brother. It just seems very off to me...stunted.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by DRW50

I think Y&R can be fixed by bringing in vital, strong new characters, and a few links to the past (specifically, Y&R's first decade), and phasing out most of the Newmans and Abbotts, who are, to me, dead weight, with a few exceptions, and have been for a decade or more.

I think that's what Bill Bell might have done.

I don't think it will happen though.

Some people were outraged about MAB getting rid of the Carltons....don't think phasing out the Newmans and Abbotts would do the show any good at all. It's barely recognizable as it is. JMO.

If I remember correctly the late great Doug Marland says a new writer shouldn't get rid or introduce any new characters within at least the first 6 months.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by PJA

Some people were outraged about MAB getting rid of the Carltons....don't think phasing out the Newmans and Abbotts would do the show any good at all. It's barely recognizable as it is. JMO.

Exactly.

People were upset about Don Diamont being let go, but I think that people were OK with Colleen being written out, they were just angry about her being killed off.

It's crazy is how much melody and Jess are pro JFP. Jess has been getting much better treatment from Jill. I get melody likes Jill a lot maybe cause she feels she has her back.

Exactly.

People were upset about Don Diamont being let go, but I think that people were OK with Colleen being written out, they were just angry about her being killed off.

I didn't have a problem with Colleen being written out as I preferred the previous two. BUT killing off Traci's only daughter? I feel like the writers have abused the Abbotts for the last decade. They are the punching bag of the show. (for the writers and for Victor lol)