I am sure we will have plenty of Abbott family time because I am sure Victoria will kick Billy out of their house soon enough. This way DT's Billy will be surrounded by Abbotts his first weeks on the show. I actually look forward to him and how they much of the old version of him will come back into play. Also flashbacks. I expect lots of flashbacks.

SID interviews Lauren Woodland. She said she would love to come back for a few episodes. I know AH said Thad was asked to return and Kelly Kruger was approached. I would not be surprised to see a Glow by Jabot reunion arc. Maybe they want to relaunch it now the social media has advanced so much. This time it will center around Summer but the old crew would kick it off. That could be a cute way to get some old faces on and jog the audience memory.

I think one of the problems I had was Billy barely arrived before any of this happened. Billy was mostly offcamera, then he shows up, yelling about Jill, which quickly became about Mac.

Not true.

Jill & John had many scenes where they worked on their individual & collective relationship to parenting Billy who was not happy to be stuck in Genoa City & because Billy was unhappy being there & knew Jill wanted to keep him there to bond with him there were many times Billy disrespected her (which John disciplined him sternly for).

All of this happened BEFORE he became friends with Mackenzie & long before they began dating (which was almost a YEAR after they both arrived in town).

I just didn't care for the pairing or Jill's role in it.

What role?

Jill's issues with Mackenzie were separate from her issues with Billy.

She had almost six months of story with Mackenzie ALONE before Billy even arrived in Genoa City.

Thus her presence in their lives was hardly her being inserted to cause drama.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by DeeeDee

But that isn't how Billy returned to the canvas. He wasn't full of fury or outrage. He was a damaged kid who was re-learning his dynamic with his mother who loved him so much she smothered him whenever she could. Jill wasn't being berated for her mothering skills or personality...Jill only started getting dumped on for that once Hogan Sheffer was aboard the show.

Exactly.

Also on Billy's second trip to Genoa City the main people he disrespected were John & KATHERINE.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by DeeeDee

All of this happened BEFORE he became friends with Mackenzie & long before they began dating (which was almost a YEAR after they both arrived in town).

The whole thing blurred together for me because it was pretty obvious they were pairing them up from one of the first times they met.

What role?

General meddling. Poor long-suffering Mackenzie punished by Jill. I felt like the whole thing emphasized the more dreary side of her personality. I felt like she was better in the homeless shelter setting. I also would have preferring seeing more of her relationship with Brock.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by DRW50

DRW50, I love your Leslie Knope icon.

I liked Ashley at first, but she became very sullen and guarded all the time, and I just wasn't that interested in this, especially since I felt like most of the story was about Jill not allowing her son to have his great love of all time. I thought Billy was a punk so I couldn't invest.

Well Billy was very much the thoughtless, selfish punk. But it was a classic wallflower/rogue romance with a splash of the ugly duckling fairy tale on the side (AB is beautiful but her looks are atypical for the genre). So his characterization worked well with the story.

The whole thing blurred together for me because it was pretty obvious they were pairing them up from one of the first times they met.

It's true that it was obvious that they would be paired but it was difficult for them to be just friends because of their individual personalities.

They weren't some instant pairing with Evil Jill around to provide conflict (it took Billy almost dying for them to kiss & semi admit their feelings for each other).

General meddling.

Jill is a classic meddler & was meddling in Mackenzie's life LONG before she began seeing Billy.

Poor long-suffering Mackenzie punished by Jill.

Jill had the same problems with Mackenzie that she had with Nina & Drucilla.

Except (unlike Nina) Mackenzie had no schemes & rarely fought back (unlike Drucilla).

I felt like the whole thing emphasized the more dreary side of her personality.

Dreary how?

You're making these claims about the story & characters based on things that never happened.

This wasn't a case like Ryan's Hope where Delia was constantly being ridiculed by the Ryan family.

I also would have preferring seeing more of her relationship with Brock.

They had a great relationship.

Since BK wasn't on contract investing in heavy story for them would be difficult but the story they did get was really good.

AshBash & BK had good chemistry & shared many sweet scenes (during his regular visits).

One of my favorites is them quietly trimming the Chancellor Christmas tree together during their first holiday together.

All this talk about glow by jabot kids is really taking me back. I wouldn't mind a redux but with whom. They could have had Summer, Kyle, fen, and Abby and a couple of other teens unconnected to core families...but MAB ruined it with her random sorasing.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by ajsp35801

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tr3BOcv820

Dreary how?

Dour, depressed, defensive.

I'm sure this was true to her background, but I just didn't enjoy watching it. I felt like the character was draining, and I felt like there was no way out, because when she was with Katherine, she was depressed, when she was with Jill, depressed, Raul, depressed, Billy, depressed.

I don't mind depressed or solemn characters, but I have to feel like I know them and can understand them.

I just didn't feel that with Mackenzie. To me she was, essentially, a sorrowful presence who took up a lot of airtime with people I would have preferred seeing having other storylines, and when she wasn't with them, she was with characters I had little to no investment in.

You're making these claims about the story & characters based on things that never happened.

To me that's how it happened. That's how I felt at the time. I may be wrong. I don't know. I don't really want to go back and see that material again. I realize I'm in the minority on the board in regards to those characters.

DRW50, I love your Leslie Knope icon.

Thanks. I meant to have it up earlier. I'm going to keep it until New Year's and then replace it with another annoying fandom icon.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by DRW50

Thank you for the clip.

Did that bowling ball stuff happen oncamera?

I sort of like Jill's hair, as I think this is what it might have looked like if she'd always stayed Jill Foster and never found wealth and power. I'd like to think she's embracing that part of herself, even if the show no longer remembers it.

All this talk about glow by jabot kids are really taking me back. I wouldn't mind a redux but with whom. They could have had Summer, Kyle, fen, and Abby and a couple of other teens unconnected to core families...but MAB ruined it with her random sorasing.

Yeah aging Kyle, Noah and Abby into 20 somethings especially Abby, but that doesn't mean they still can't do it

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by cassadine1991

Dour, depressed, defensive.

I'm sure this was true to her background, but I just didn't enjoy watching it.

She had reason to be that way.

She wasn't dour & defensive randomly she grew up in a alcoholic household that caused her to live on the streets (again making her very much in the vein of young Nina & Drucilla)

I felt like the character was draining, and I felt like there was no way out, because when she was with Katherine, she was depressed, when she was with Jill, depressed, Raul, depressed, Billy, depressed.

She was the exact opposite of depressed with Katherine (especially when she learned Katherine could adopt her) & she had many happy moments with Brock, Esther & Raul.

She even made friends with Nina & Sharon.

Mackenzie was depressed about Billy because of her increasing feelings for him & about Jill because JILL'S insecurities caused her to unnecessarily make Mackenzie's life a living hell.

And over the years whenever she became too dour or prudish she was constantly confronted about it by her friends (Raul, Billy) as well as her enemies (Jill, Brittany, JT).

I don't mind depressed or solemn characters, but I have to feel like I know them and can understand them.

It was well established initially that Mackenzie came from a dysfunctional alcoholic household & later that she was a victim of sexual assault.

How is that not being allowed understand a character?

To me that's how it happened.

But you're making these assumptions about scenes you've either haven't seen or that just didn't happen.

I realize I'm in the minority on the board in regards to those characters.

It's not about being in the minority.

It's about choosing to dislike an entire story because of stuff that has no basis in reality.

I like you Carl but it's true.

Edited December 30, 201311 yr by DeeeDee

Happy 30th Birthday Ashley Bashioum

For me the difference between her and Dru and Nina is mostly the inner life, and the fight they had.

I liked the character at first, when she was in the shelter, and she did seem to have that spirit then.

I didn't see it once she got to the mansion.

I do understand what you're saying, and if I ever see those episodes again I'll watch with fresh eyes.