It was Grace who introduced Alice to Michael Baldwin, right? She wanted to destory the Newmans and sent Michael in her direction. My memory is a bit fuzzy. But yeah Christine was Shick's lawyer and Michael was Alice. Grace and Nick's affair basically ruined their chances to keep Cassie. Michael painted Alice like a damn saint. This was back when he was still awesome and slimey. He was also crushing on Grace at the time. Grace ended up regretting it when she realized that Shick were losing and Cassie was going to be ripped from her family. The smartest thing Christine did was put Cassie on the stand because after she basically begged the judge to let her stay with the Newmans is when Alice folded and signed away her rights. She picked Cassie's happiness.

I remember after Cassie died that Nick went to see Alice secretly. They had a nice heart to heart about Cassie's first years. I remember being happy that the writers remembered Alice and let us (the audience) see that she knew what happened.

It was Grace who introduced Alice to Michael Baldwin, right? She wanted to destory the Newmans and sent Michael in her direction. My memory is a bit fuzzy. But yeah Christine was Shick's lawyer and Michael was Alice. Grace and Nick's affair basically ruined their chances to keep Cassie. Michael painted Alice like a damn saint. This was back when he was still awesome and slimey. He was also crushing on Grace at the time. Grace ended up regretting it when she realized that Shick were losing and Cassie was going to be ripped from her family. The smartest thing Christine did was put Cassie on the stand because after she basically begged the judge to let her stay with the Newmans is when Alice folded and signed away her rights. She picked Cassie's happiness.

I remember after Cassie died that Nick went to see Alice secretly. They had a nice heart to heart about Cassie's first years. I remember being happy that the writers remembered Alice and let us (the audience) see that she knew what happened.

Yep. All the Newmans had gone off on Grace about the affair so she wanted revenge. Take them down a peg. Once Michael learned that Chris was representing Sharon/Nick he immediately decided to represent Alice.

Edited December 29, 201311 yr by full hearts

I still don't. Why would she? Alice had long abandoned Cassie. She was only was going after Cassie because she was angry and wanted to stick it to the rich and powerful Newmans. She didn't really want to raise Cassie and once she realized that she bowed out. Victoria has basically been Johnny's only parent for 2 months. I think she would die before she let Billy take her son from her. Besides I don't see Billy doing that to her all at. He is not malicious.

It isn't a Reed situation were they wrote off the child actor because of unforseen health issues. They like Max Page so they keep him on as recurring. Though I think they need to just age him up already.

Seriously. There is no way Victoria is going to give up her child. I find the suggestion absurd. People are always talking about character's being ruined, but I can't think of anything that would ruin a character faster than returning a child like he's a purse.

I agree that Billy would not try to take Johnny from Victoria, but even if he did, he doesn't have any more standing as Johnny's parent than Victoria does. That's what adoption means. If they had a custody battle Billy would not come out looking good. He bought one child and Delia died on his watch.

Chelsea is a legal non entity here. Y&R can be campy at times, but I cannot see them making a mockery of adoption. I'm not even an adoptive parent and I find the thought of it outrageous.

Seriously. There is no way Victoria is going to give up her child. I find the suggestion absurd. People are always talking about character's being ruined, but I can't think of anything that would ruin a character faster than returning a child like he's a purse.

I agree that Billy would not try to take Johnny from Victoria, but even if he did, he doesn't have any more standing as Johnny's parent than Victoria does. That's what adoption means. If they had a custody battle Billy would not come out looking good. He bought one child and Delia died on his watch.

Chelsea is a legal non entity here. Y&R can be campy at times, but I cannot see them making a mockery of adoption. I'm not even an adoptive parent and I find the thought of it outrageous.

Well, I admit to an agenda that outweighs common sense and borders on the ridiculous where Johnny is concerned. :-)

It was Grace who introduced Alice to Michael Baldwin, right? She wanted to destory the Newmans and sent Michael in her direction.

Yep. All the Newmans had gone off on Grace about the affair so she wanted revenge. Take them down a peg. Once Michael learned that Chris was representing Sharon/Nick he immediately decided to represent Alice.

Grace didn't send Michael to Alice to get revenge against the Newmans. It was much more complicated than that. Grace was angry at them and really wanted to hurt them but she refused to do anything that would jeopardize Cassie. So she asked Michael to broker a deal in which Alice would get paid off in exchange for signing over her parental rights. Alice wanted the money but also wanted Cassie and only went along with it because Al insisted they take the money and run. Grace also wanted to keep her involvement in this a secret.

He also didn't decide to represent Alice because of Christine. Grace BEGGED him to represent Alice but throw the case to make sure Cassie stays with Nick and Sharon. Michael agreed and probably had every intention of doing so until he found out Christine was representing Sharon & Nick. It was a lot of fun watching Michael lie to Grace as he navigated the hearings.

He was also crushing on Grace at the time. Grace ended up regretting it when she realized that Shick were losing and Cassie was going to be ripped from her family.

They wrote Michael as much more than crushing on Grace. He really, really liked her (which is why he agreed to throw the custody case) and they dated for a while and had sex. Grace broke things off because Michael put her on the stand and tore her to shreds, which is when she realized that he was lying all along and really intended to win this case for Alice. They had a few fabulous, nasty arguments.

Grace didn't send Michael to Alice to get revenge against the Newmans. It was much more complicated than that. Grace was angry at them and really wanted to hurt them but she refused to do anything that would jeopardize Cassie. So she asked Michael to broker a deal in which Alice would get paid off in exchange for signing over her parental rights. Alice wanted the money but also wanted Cassie and only went along with it because Al insisted they take the money and run. Grace also wanted to keep her involvement in this a secret.

He also didn't decide to represent Alice because of Christine. Grace BEGGED him to represent Alice but throw the case to make sure Cassie stays with Nick and Sharon. Michael agreed and probably had every intention of doing so until he found out Christine was representing Sharon & Nick. It was a lot of fun watching Michael lie to Grace as he navigated the hearings.

They wrote Michael as much more than crushing on Grace. He really, really liked her (which is why he agreed to throw the custody case) and they dated for a while and had sex. Grace broke things off because Michael put her on the stand and tore her to shreds, which is when she realized that he was lying all along and really intended to win this case for Alice. They had a few fabulous, nasty arguments.

Blast from the past. I forgot a lot of this. Thanks.

Ah yes! Nasty Al. I remember it now. I fully admitted my memory was fuzzy. I also remember now that toward the end Alice actually began to change a bit and sincerly wanted Cassie back. She was given visitation and they always went south. That is when Alice started to realize that it was not going to work but she kept trying to force the issue. Didn't they have to schedule a session in which Sharon attending because Cassie was so anxious due to Alice? I have a memory of Alice being pissy because she felt like her time was being wasted because Sharon's presense was ruining her bonding time.

The good old times. I look forward to watching this 1998 episode.

Blast from the past. I forgot a lot of this. Thanks.

You're welcome! It was fun to actually think about it; it was such a well-plotted story.

Ah yes! Nasty Al. I remember it now. I fully admitted my memory was fuzzy. I also remember now that toward the end Alice actually began to change a bit and sincerly wanted Cassie back. She was given visitation and they always went south. That is when Alice started to realize that it was not going to work but she kept trying to force the issue. Didn't they have to schedule a session in which Sharon attending because Cassie was so anxious due to Alice? I have a memory of Alice being pissy because she felt like her time was being wasted because Sharon's presense was ruining her bonding time.

The good old times. I look forward to watching this 1998 episode.

No worries--I have horrible memory and it took a while to bring all the details back.

I believe the visit you are referring to was the first and Alice did get pissy. It was truly amazing how, as the custody case went on, the writers were able to show a different side to Alice and humanize her (instead of turning her into more of a villain, like they would have done today). There is a scene a few months later, where Alice has fully committed to winning custody and raising Cassie, but Cassie only cares for Millie. After the visit is done, Cassie and Sharon go to the kitchen to bake cookies and Alice, apart from observing their close relationship, is left alone to look at the house she will never be able to afford. I dare anyone to watch that scene and not feel empathy for Alice. Tamara Clatterbuck was brilliant.

I remember liking Alice at the end. That is the kind of writing I long for now. People were truly flawed but flawed didn't mean evil or bad. Alice was not a horrible person. She was just horribly influenced. In the end she proved that she truly did love Cassie by letting her go. That is why I liked when Nick went to visit her after Cassie died. That was just a nice scene that probably wouldn't have happened until the current regime.

Side note: It's cute that Sharon Case, Tamara Clatterbuck, Jennifer Gareis and Lauren Woodland are bestfriends in real life.

Well, I admit to an agenda that outweighs common sense and borders on the ridiculous where Johnny is concerned. :-)

Well, the little tyke can head off to boarding school, before too long. That seems like a fair compromise.

Seriously. There is no way Victoria is going to give up her child. I find the suggestion absurd. People are always talking about character's being ruined, but I can't think of anything that would ruin a character faster than returning a child like he's a purse.

I agree that Billy would not try to take Johnny from Victoria, but even if he did, he doesn't have any more standing as Johnny's parent than Victoria does. That's what adoption means. If they had a custody battle Billy would not come out looking good. He bought one child and Delia died on his watch.

Chelsea is a legal non entity here. Y&R can be campy at times, but I cannot see them making a mockery of adoption. I'm not even an adoptive parent and I find the thought of it outrageous.

I agree. It is just not going to happen. Besides as we have established on this show that adopted and non traditions families are pretty much the normal and you rarely see the kid taken away unless it is some crazy extreme circumstance like Lucy, which was because she was not legally theirs.

Brad was Abby's adoptive father and stayed that way until his death. That is when she got close to Victor but even then he was always in her life. So it was not a huge stretch.

Tucker was revealed to be Devon's father and that changed nothing in regards to his relationship with Neil. The same with Lily. Neil is her father eventhough biologically he is her uncle.

Daniel and Danny are father and son. The truth changed nothing.

And we all know Cassie and Nick..

Ronan discovered Nina was his mother and they never really bonded despite both his adopted parents being dead.

Time will tell with Nikki and Dylan but I get the feeling the opposite will happen and they will bond.

Victoria has been Johnny's mother all his life. I don't see a custody fight between them anyways but if it were to come to that I don't see Victoria laying down and taking it. The Newmans have claimed Johnny as their own and they will come guns blazing to make sure he stays that way. And we all know it. But in all seriousness Billy would never tale Johnny from her. This summer showed us basically how their divorce would be like. Victoria has custody and Billy has vistation.

Well, the little tyke can head off to boarding school, before too long. That seems like a fair compromise.

I'll take it...

They wrote Michael as much more than crushing on Grace. He really, really liked her

Yep

He would sit in his office drawing sketches of her.

Alice was not a horrible person.

Alice was never a horrible person.

In fact the reason she wanted to adopt Cassie in the first place was to make up for her bad relationship with Millie.

No matter how greedy & focused on winning Alice became she always had a soft spot for Cassie.

I don't actually see Victor taking Johnny. He has no grounds but I can see him threatening her and her caving and letting him play grandpa to Connor in Adam's absence. I mean who will be by her side after the grand reveal? Will Chloe? Will Jack? She has no other friends or family. And they have had Victor ranting about her for a while now and showing a lot of interest in Connor. But at least that is already in motion. Chelsea doesn't think about Johnny except for when it is said in passing. I doubt most new viwers even know Chelsea is his biological mother.

Well if they don't want Victoria and Billy to interact that will happen regardless of Johnny. I mean Billy and Chloe had Delia and they barely said anything to each other. Besides its not like he will fight her for custody or anything. He never has. She is always the one who takes the boy and leaves. And since he is the one who screwed up and hasn't even been a father to his son for weeks nevermind the fact his kid died on his watch... good luck with him trying to get custody. The writing is in favor of Victoria right now. I don't see it changing.

At least DT will get to really put his stamp on Billy as I feel he will be a rock bottom when he takes over. DT's Billy will get to rebuild his life. Not a bad way to reintroduce an actor.

I am glad they are giving BJ better material. I like his potential pairing with Hilary. I like that I don't know where they are going romantically with her character yet. Devon or Jack? Stitch is still an option as well. I do wish they didn't make her so goody goody. I liked her a little bad. This 180 is a but much. I hate when they completely whitewash characters overnight, but oh well. I like the actress so I will let it slide. Also loving her rivalry with Jill.

Oh I think it is very obvious they are pairing Miss Devon with Hilary. Too bad she gets the wimpiest guy on the show. Hilary had potential, but being stuck with that schmuck did not help her out.