I'll go first:

B&B

- While not perfect, the show is currently in the best shape it's been in since 2003.

Y&R

- Genie Francis is terrific as Genevieve Atkinson. I know she wasn't well liked in her first few months on her show, but I'm currently watching June 2011 episodes and I LOVE her campy take on the character, despite the overall wretchedness of the storyline. Although I never saw Francis on GH, so I don't have that to compare it to. I'd love to see her on B&B in a Sally Spectra/Jackie Marone type role.

- Phyllis is one of very few characters to actually flourish under MAB (save for the Lucy custody madness). And of course, I still consider La Stafford to be the best actress in daytime.

- Maura West was AT LEAST as miscast as Diane as Shari Shattuck was as Ashley.

OLTL should have brought back LK's Cassie instead of GT's Kelly.

agreed.

You had me until the Koslow hate. I'm not one for long tirades of why I disagree, but I'll just say we disagree.

I thought Engen was great as Adam. Muhney started out as really hammy and now is so understated it doesn't feel like he's trying or acting, merely just someone saying lines. Though his scenes saving the barn actually showed him trying and I enjoyed him.

--I'm so OVER people forgetting how bad previous regimes actually were. MAB's Y&R has had moments of greatness sprinkled through the Sh!t. LML completely DECIMATED the show to the point of it being unrecognizable. Did LML use Jess Walton AT ALL? Did MTS get ANY Emmy-Worthy material out of LML? Did LML create even ONE character for the show that had staying power? Does even ONE of LML's storylines still resonate on the show today? And no, the Nick/Phyllis affair doesn't count because we ALL know that it was born out of a Jack Smith storyline.

Didn't LML write the story with Jill and Ji Min?

Most of LML's characters were written out by MAB out of spite. I think a few had potential.

I think LML was awful but she seemed to at least care. MAB just doesn't give a crap. Supposedly she rarely goes to the studio and she seems more interested in talking about her art.

--Jill Farren Phelps was the last gifted, old-school EP left on Daytime. I'd have had much higher hopes for GH if they'd brought on Carliavati under Phelps with Courtney Simon as co-head. I'm sorry, but Frank Valentini's gift is directing and keeping a show on budget. A balanced budget isn't going to keep GH on the air. Just look at OLTL.

--Jessica Collins has actually re-invigorated Michelle Stafford. As much as I still find Stafford overrated and Phyllis to be awful, she acts her ass off in scenes with Collins because JC gives her no choice. Who'd have thought that Jessica Collins was going to re-invigorate Y&R? But she has.

--Sharon Case needs to be jettisoned to B&B stat. Whether as Sharon or a new character, at least Bradley would have the smarts to put her with Diamont.

--I actually liked B&B's Taylor for a few weeks in 2011.

--DAYS is not in as bad of shape as everyone is saying it is. The problem is they chose some of the wrong actors to fire if they were gonna keep others (why fire Nadia Bjorlin when you're keeping Shawn Christian? Same goes for firing Louise Sorel yet keeping Bren Foster)

--I LOVED Danloe and thought their chemistry exploded off the screen. I just didn't find their breakup at all believable- yes, Daniel would feel angry and betrayed, but he loved Chloe so much that NO WAY would he have dumped her over the Philip/Chloe fling, especially when the paternity switch wasn't her fault.

--I've always hated Caroline Brady, but I LOVE me some Batshit Crazy Caroline. She is missing right now, just like Ciara and Theo. Hell, Ciara was stealing scenes left & right under Higley.

--OLTL was NOT the best soap of 2011. Not even close. That honor belonged to AMC, not that it's saying much.

--Prospect Park was a gimmick from the beginning. I believe they had the best of intentions, but I also think ABC knew it would never work or happen which is why they sold their soaps to them in the first place. They figured they'd save face as their shows were "saved". SHAME on them for therefore not allowing AMC a proper ending and instead, forcing a cliff-hanger on them.

-I LOVED JR's exit storyline. It was daring for a soap to take a character that the audience actually rooted for and had him end up in a very dark place. Oh and watching him call Dixie on all her sh!T was cathartic to say the least.

--I like Debbi Morgan on Y&R. I LOVE Stephen Nichols and Tucker even more and find him FAR more interesting and charasmatic than Jack, Victor, and Adam.

--Joshua Morrow is not a bad actor and plays Nick Newman exactly how he should be.

--If Y&R had listened to ME and cast Mark Collier instead of Sean Patrick Flannery as (whatshisname- I don't even remember), the character would still be on the canvas, viable, and there would be someone for the women of Genoa City to sleep with BESIDES Nicholas Newman. When they sent out the casting call, it was a no-brainer- that role should have been Collier's hands down without so much as a screen test. Does MAB have a problem with casting attractive men on Y&R? Because she has YET to bring a hunk ONTO the show, yet she keeps firing them.

--Maura West was NOT miscast as Diane. The show was never going to bring back Alex Donnely, as much as I wanted her back. Maura was the next best thing. Her first week was amazing and she had chemistry with EVERY character that Diane had history with. The problem was the writing for her as a slut. Having her sleep with Tucker was actually brilliant and SHOULD have re-ignited the Diane/Ashley rivalry, which was always Diane's best. Following that up with her bedding Nick and having the grossest seduction scene of 80 year old Victor Newman is what killed Diane, certainly not Ms. West. I firmly believe that her firing was a political one- we've heard rumors about a SONY/CBS/Y&R Brass vendetta that she was the victim of. As bad a rap as she gets, MAB is not a complete moron. You don't fire Maura West but keep Amelia Heinle front burner. You just.....don't.

--I preferred Adrienne Frantz on Y&R over B&B and still think there is FAR more story potential on Y&R than she does on her original show.

--This is more TRUTH than an unpopular opinion, but Y&R did NOT achieve it's highest ratings nor hit #1 under Victoria Rowell or Kimberlin Brown. No folks, it was actually the George Rawlins Murder Mystery/Bermuda Triangle Location Shoot that brought Y&R to #1. Everyone talks about how the story dragged nowadays but it's simply not true (that's Caroline Crawford ya'll are thinking of). NINA ARVESEN's Cassandra Hall Rawlins was actually what made the show a hit and is the most undervalued and underrated commodity that Y&R ever had. Why they let her go in '91 and never asked her back I'll never understand, but their loss was Santa Barbara's gain, as Angela Cassidy Raymond was and is the last GREAT new character to join SB. And of course, she was created by none other than the Dobsons.

--Speaking of that, the Dobsons' second run on SB didn't suck AT ALL, nor was it a disappointment. Yes, they made a mistake with Louise Sorel, but Louise has said herself that the situation was created by Paul Rauch, not the Dobsons. Hell, even I know the Augusta/Dash flirtation began and ended under Paul Rauch and Maralyn Thoma/Pratt. The Dobsons had NOTHING to do with it and walked into a REAL mess at SB. HUGE mistakes had been made and they were stuck wrapping up stories they'd never have started in the first place. It's a pity they didn't write the show to the end because Pam Long is what truly KILLED Santa Barbara. Well she had lots of help from Wanda DeJesus, Maria Ellingsen, Kim Zimmer, and Eileen Davidson. It's a little known fact that the Dobsons were actually positioning Angela as their leading anti-heroine and it was working. Pam Long came on and it all went to sh!t.

--One final Unpopular Santa Barbara Opinion- The BJ Molestation story was not only AWFUL, but irresponsible and disgusting. She's introduced as a gender confused woman posing as a man, Warren develops these strange feelings for her, then it's revealed she's a female, and it turns out that she was molested as a child by a character who was the SAME AGE as Warren. And yet their relationship is written as a fairy tale, not one character (save Angela) even attempted to break them up or discuss how psychologically fu.cked up their relationship was, ESPECIALLY considering BJ was just remembering and dealing with being raped and molested by an older man. And our final episode was 40ish Warren marrying 19 year old BJ who was a molestation survivor who never got any therapy or help? And critics actually LAUDED this storyline? I'm convinced Scott Hamner and Megan McTavish must have been consulting for Long or that's where she was getting her advice from. The Dobsons NEVER would have treated such a delicate matter so disgustingly.

and finally

--I freaking LOVE Yvonne Zima, think she's the best actress on daytime at the moment, and totally pops. Now if they'd bring Shayna Rose on as her sister, Y&R would really have something.

I kid. I kid.

You had me until the Koslow hate. I'm not one for long tirades of why I disagree, but I'll just say we disagree.

Ok, but let me ask you, did you watch DAYS when Deborah Adair played Kate or was Lauren Koslow already playing Kate when you started watching the show? Because trust me, that makes all the difference and youtube clips aren't the same as watching the show on a daily basis as the story played out. For example, Adair's Kate's relationships with Lucas, Austin, and especially Billie were far more complex and layered and psychologically involving than Koslow's Kate's ever were. Kate's current relationships with her children are COMPLETELY different and it doesn't stem from natural story progression. Hell, she's barely even spoken to Austin or seen Carrie since their return and that's just an example. I cringe at her fawning over Billie and her contemptuous relationship with Lucas. It's just not the same and makes Zero sense to me, even after 15 years of watching it.

Didn't LML write the story with Jill and Ji Min?

Yes, but that only proves my point. That "story" lasted a minute and the chemistry between Jill & Ji Min was completely unexpected, yet never fleshed out.

Most of LML's characters were written out by MAB out of spite. I think a few had potential.

Really? Name some LML characters that MAB wrote out simply out of spite. Honestly, LML wrote out most of her own characters. MAB retconning most of LML's storylines was done out of spite but it was the right thing to do at the time to get the show back on track.

I think LML was awful but she seemed to at least care. MAB just doesn't give a crap. Supposedly she rarely goes to the studio and she seems more interested in talking about her art.

I disagree with this. LML didn't care about Y&R, she only cared about her vision of soap opera and what she thought Y&R ought to be. She decimated everything that made Y&R unique and the creme de la creme of soaps. You can't convince me that LML's Reliquary Storyline showed that she CARED about Y&R, nor her total destruction of Drucilla showed she cared.

I think MAB actually does care. The problem is either she can't fire Sheffer/Hamner or SONY won't let her. I'm sorry but MAB takes the brunt of the blame of the mess of Y&R, yet when she was running it with Josh Griffith and on her own, the show experienced a creative renaissance. It wasn't until Sheffer/Hamner came aboard that the show went to sh!t. In fact, from fall 2008-March 2009, Y&R was very close to greatness again and it's identity seemed to be returning. Then Sheffer's material starting airing and we got a Talking Chipmunk....like, immediately.

Really? Name some LML characters that MAB wrote out simply out of spite. Honestly, LML wrote out most of her own characters. MAB retconning most of LML's storylines was done out of spite but it was the right thing to do at the time to get the show back on track.

Did it get the show on track? Did rewriting the Katharine/Jill stuff again or saying that Philip had faked his death and abandoned his newborn son do anything to help the show?

I would say MAB wrote them all out due to spite. She has no problem keeping her own dead weight around, to prove some type of point (Yvonne Zima case in point). Karen and Jana both could have added a lot to the show. Korbel wasn't that bad either. And the first Heather could have been much more of an asset to the show.

I think MAB actually does care. The problem is either she can't fire Sheffer/Hamner or SONY won't let her. I'm sorry but MAB takes the brunt of the blame of the mess of Y&R, yet when she was running it with Josh Griffith and on her own, the show experienced a creative renaissance. It wasn't until Sheffer/Hamner came aboard that the show went to sh!t. In fact, from fall 2008-March 2009, Y&R was very close to greatness again and it's identity seemed to be returning. Then Sheffer's material starting airing and we got a Talking Chipmunk....like, immediately.

Sheffer's material began in fall 2008. Hamner had been stinking up the show since 2006 or 2007.

I thought MAB's time on the show was better than Sheffer but her material was mauled by critics and some fans (John's doppleganger, Ana the singing child, Sabrina).

--I preferred Adrienne Frantz on Y&R over B&B and still think there is FAR more story potential on Y&R than she does on her original show.

I agree with you - I'm not even sure why B&B took her back. Other than Brad Bell being lazy and only being able to tell a story if it's one which was already told.

--If Y&R had listened to ME and cast Mark Collier instead of Sean Patrick Flannery as (whatshisname- I don't even remember), the character would still be on the canvas, viable, and there would be someone for the women of Genoa City to sleep with BESIDES Nicholas Newman. When they sent out the casting call, it was a no-brainer- that role should have been Collier's hands down without so much as a screen test. Does MAB have a problem with casting attractive men on Y&R? Because she has YET to bring a hunk ONTO the show, yet she keeps firing them.

I don't think they ever cared about casting a viable actor or hunk in that role. It was just a way to mark time until they could hook Sharon back to Adam's pant leg. And more stunt casting, which MAB loves.

I think your timeline is off Carl- I'm almost positive that Griffith/MAB were still in charge in 2008. I'm pretty sure Sheffer's material didn't start airing until 2009. I'll look it up tomorrow.

Sheffer's material began in fall 2008. That was when we were supposed to get a big thrill out of a pregnant woman being blown up, Nikki being told she should die, Nikki rolling around on the beach, Skye butchered and buried under the stables. That was when I knew Y&R was gone forever.

http://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/26277-yr-breaking-news-hogan-sheffer-joins-%26%238216%3Byr%26%238217%3B/

This is kind of a complicated issue. It's not so much a question of either Lily being more "believable" as Dru's daughter, because human beings are not so black and white, pun intended. A parent and child can be extremely close and still seem, on the surface at least, very dissimilar. I speak from personal experience, and I don't mean just looks but also demeanor. The REAL issue is the show's preference for Lily to be a, for all intents and purposes, white young heroine who is only black when her father is in the room. In Hollywood, CK's type is "ethnically ambiguous-as white", like Jennifer Beals. Television chooses more often than not to cast black female leads with looks and/or speech that "inoffensively" tip "white".

This so much. Just like how Beyonce went from black to "creole." The way Davetta went could make me cry. I prefer not to think about it.

That's what I don't get about all the Davetta love, really. She might've been more street than CK, but just because she's more street doesn't mean she's an outstanding actress. "Better than Christel" is still not good enough, IMO.

FF

Firing Davetta and bringing back Christel was the most racist moment in daytime history. Christel had been a non-actress for years and she stirred up drama, so it was a big win when they found a competent replacement. The ONLY reason that Davetta was fired was that she was too black. To me, it's understandable that that caused a lot of anger.

Didn't LML write the story with Jill and Ji Min?

Yep.

That horrible story was only saved by the chemistry between Steinberg & Walton though.

Most of LML's characters were written out by MAB out of spite. I think a few had potential.

The only ones that had any real potential were Maggie, Adrian, Ji Min & Ben.

And that was pretty much solely due to the actors.

I think LML was awful but she seemed to at least care.

She definitely cared. About ruining Y&R.

She did damage to the show that will never be fixed.

MAB just doesn't give a crap. Supposedly she rarely goes to the studio and she seems more interested in talking about her art.

Amen.

Her first 6 months were great but since then it's been all downhill.

--Michael Muhney is not a good actor, is not good casting, and is not better than Chris Engen in the role of Adam. Unfortunately, the show miscast the character twice, should have rested him, let him pay for his crimes, and had him come back with a new actor in the role. Perhaps the guy who's now playing Ricky?

I like both Engen & Muhney as Adam.

They're good actors but both were stuck with horrible writing.

Engen couldn't keep Adam viable the way Muhney has since Ashley's miscarriage & Muhney wouldn't have been able to sell the garbage LML wrote for Engen.

So in essence they were the right actors at the right time in the right role.

I'd forgotten about Maggie. I guess she probably never would have stayed, since the actress is close to LML and Lechowick, but I liked her.

Who was Ben?

I guess I see Y&R as being damaged by Smith, and then LML, but to me MAB/Sheffer/Hamner are the ones who did the irreversible damage.