1. It didn't matter who was in charge of ABC daytime because the decision to cancel came from above, Frons couldn't have stopped it if he wanted to. Frons had his hand in the destruction no doubt, never said the fault isn't on his shoulders, unfortunately the decline of the genre is more than Frons and ABC every soap is dealing with the same problems and threat of cancellation. Of course the rating plunges that the shows attained hastened the cancellations but Disney/ABC have been looking for cheaper programming for a while now and it was just a matter of when they were going to make those cancellations calls, I for one do not believe that the soaps would have lasted another 5-10 yrs as is.

2. Yes it is being supported by ABC actions, I believe for the last couple of years they been trying out different talk shows and the fact that the new head of daytime is experience is talks shows and lifestyles shows are an indication to me that they are going in a different direction. Disney/ABC wants out of the soap business a hard pill to swallow but it is what it is.

I completely disagree with you....and in fact, your points are barely coherent. Since, based on your comments, I don't view you as someone with a modicum of intelligence, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

It didn't matter who was in charge of ABC daytime because the decision to cancel came from above, Frons couldn't have stopped it if he wanted to. Frons had his hand in the destruction no doubt, never said the fault isn't on his shoulders, unfortunately the decline of the genre is more than Frons and ABC every soap is dealing with the same problems and threat of cancellation.

I totally agree that Frons did not personally decide to cancel the ABC soaps, nor was it ever his intention to destroy them (though I really don't think he gave a s#it about PC or OLTL one way or the other). Frons' responsiblity lies in the fact that he mismanaged the soaps so badly that the ratings plunged. However, even if somebody outstanding was in charge, ratings for AMC, OLTL, & GH would be on par with B&B (at best). The internet and the fact that there are a thousand channels make it nearly impossible for a soap to do much better.

Edited December 4, 201114 yr by Max

I totally agree that Frons did not personally decide to cancel the ABC soaps, nor was it ever his intention to destroy them (though I really don't think he gave a s#it about PC or OLTL one way or the other).

That's another conspiracy theory I wish would be debunked. I cannot comment about PORT CHARLES since I'm not as familiar with it as I am others (although I suspect that under-performer was on the chopping block before he even entered the building, and fans are just looking for someone -- anyone -- to blame rather than admit their show was a dog), but if he never "cared" about OLTL, then why in the hell did it suck the entire time it was under his watch? And please spare me the you-just-don't-appreciate-camp arguments. I appreciate camp when it's good; what often passed for it on OLTL was anything but.

There's a reason why FV and RC are taking over GH, and it has nothing to do with an outstanding working relationship with ABC (because, let's face it, there hasn't been one) or the fact that PP imploded. They're taking it on, because they know they won't have Frons breathing down their necks anymore.

Of course, Frons' absence won't guarantee a better GH since I think OLTL's demise had largely to do with Frank and Ron's personal tastes, or lack thereof, but there you have it.

Edited December 4, 201114 yr by Khan

That's another conspiracy theory I wish would be debunked. I cannot comment about PORT CHARLES since I'm not as familiar with it as I am others (although I suspect that under-performer was on the chopping block before he even entered the building, and fans are just looking for someone -- anyone -- to blame rather than admit their show was a dog), but if he never "cared" about OLTL, then why in the hell did it suck the entire time it was under his watch? And please spare me the you-just-don't-appreciate-camp arguments. I appreciate camp when it's good; what often passed for it on OLTL was anything but.

There's a reason why FV and RC are taking over GH, and it has nothing to do with an outstanding working relationship with ABC (because, let's face it, there hasn't been one) or the fact that PP imploded. They're taking it on, because they know they won't have Frons breathing down their necks anymore.

Of course, Frons' absence won't guarantee a better GH since I think OLTL's demise had largely to do with Frank and Ron's personal tastes, or lack thereof, but there you have it.

Frons certainly cannot be held responsible for the cancellation of the s#itty PC (much in the same way Goutman cannot be held responsible for AW's demise, since he had been EP for just about six months). However, I don't believe that he cared about that soap.

It's interesting that you pointed out that OLTL has sucked under the watch of FV & RC. The general concensus at SON is that they are "brilliant" and that OLTL is so "wonderful" under them. (I personally have mixed feelings about both men.) People praise Frank and Ron, while trashing Frons. While Frons sucks, I always thought that it was an unfair double standard that he always got the blame for things that went wrong, but when a show was "good," he had nothing to do with it.

Edited December 4, 201114 yr by Max

Let me make one thing clear, though: in spite of what I've said upthread, I am NOT a Frons apologist. AMC, OLTL, GH and PORT CHARLES died, or are dying, because he never knew when to leave well enough alone. I just think Frons saw himself as the next Fred Silverman -- i.e., a television network exec who makes a big splash in daytime before moving onto bigger ponds -- but when it was clear Disney had effectively closed ranks and (most likely) screwed him out of a "big picture" promise that was made when he first came aboard, he bailed. Simple as that.

I always felt he cared for soaps, but unfortunately didnt care for what the soap fans actually wanted

It's interesting that you pointed out that OLTL has sucked under the watch of FV & RC. The general concensus at SON is that they are "brilliant" and that OLTL is so "wonderful" under them.

I wouldn't say that's the general consensus, Max. It's been my experience there are as many detractors as there are supporters.

Unless you're John Valente, and you're pissed P&G removed you from one soap (ANOTHER WORLD) in order to helm another (AS THE WORLD TURNS)*, no one sets out to produce a bad soap opera. On the other hand, good, solid writing can survive whatever interference is forced upon it. That's why I can't dismiss all of Lorraine Broderick's mid- to late-'90's work on ALL MY CHILDREN, for example. For every thing she (and her staff) did wrong, I feel, or that came out wrong once it went the network's fingers, there was something she did right. Conversely, I don't accept the notion that all the mistakes OLTL has made in the past decade or so (and during the FV/RC era in particular) are the result of Frons' meddling (or neglect, depending on which side of that argument you're on). He made his share, all right. However, if Frank and Ron were even half the wunderkinds that many claim they are, there would've been (more) particularly great moments that would have escaped even Frons' attention.

* Allegedly.

Edited December 4, 201114 yr by Khan

I always felt he cared for soaps, but unfortunately didnt care for what the soap fans actually wanted.

I wouldn't even go that far, Cheap. I think Frons did care about what fans wanted. Unfortunately, he bought into the silly notion that focus group reports and the like were reflective of what the audience as a whole wanted. It's sort of what ultimately did in John Conboy at GUIDING LIGHT: they assume a small portion of the audience speaks for the rest, and then are left flabbergasted when they realize that they don't.

When it comes to network execs, at least, I think no one quite understood the business like Michael Brockman did. He seemed to be the only one who genuinely appreciated his writers and allowed them to write whatever they wanted, with little or no interference. Everyone else, from Silverman to Frons and even Jackie Smith, just seemed to meddle.

Edited December 4, 201114 yr by Khan

I completely disagree with you....and in fact, your points are barely coherent. Since, based on your comments, I don't view you as someone with a modicum of intelligence, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You make me laugh and I don't even have to get into name calling. You can believe in whatever you wish it still doesn't change the fact that Frank did not make the decisions in this he carried out what was told to him, he couldn't have save either show if he wanted to and GH is being cancelled just like ABC/Disney wants it to be.

It just seems like you and other all knowing fans of the show/industry must be correct no matter what even when those actually in the industry contradict your claims

There's a reason why FV and RC are taking over GH, and it has nothing to do with an outstanding working relationship with ABC (because, let's face it, there hasn't been one) or the fact that PP imploded. They're taking it on, because they know they won't have Frons breathing down their necks anymore.

I think they're taking it on because they need jobs and ABC doesn't want to buy out their contracts. Although, didn't ABC release them from their contracts back when they were shilling for PP? That's something I wasn't clear on. I still can't believe that after all this RC and FV are the ones who manage to stay employed.

As for Frons, after all these years and the damage he's done, I don't think he deserves all this navel gazing. Walt Willey said Frons wasn't the devil. As much as I love what he had to say, I disagree. Frons was the devil but he wasn't the only one. There's plenty of blame to go around. There's been a lot of lying and incompetence at ABCD and just because it didn't ALL come from Frons doesn't let him off the hook. I don't care if he "loved" soaps. Ike loved Tina and Michael Jackson loved propofol.

Edited December 7, 201114 yr by marceline

I think they're taking it on because they need jobs and ABC doesn't want to buy out their contracts. Although, didn't ABC release them from their contracts back when they were shilling for PP? That's something I wasn't clear on. I still can't believe that after all this RC and FV are the ones who manage to stay employed.

As for Frons, after all these years and all the damage he's done, I don't think he deserves all this navel gazing. Walt Willey said Frons wasn't the devil. As much as I love what he had to say, I disagree. Frons was the devil but he wasn't the only one. There's plenty of blame to go around. There's been a lot of lying and incompetence at ABCD and just because it didn't ALL come from Frons doesn't let him off the hook. I don't care if he "loved" soaps. Ike loved Tina and Michael Jackson loved propofol.

I don't care if he "loved" soaps. Ike loved Tina and Michael Jackson loved propofol.

Hee, hee. IA. I don't like Frons' version of "loving" soaps.

I think they're taking it on because they need jobs and ABC doesn't want to buy out their contracts. Although, didn't ABC release them from their contracts back when they were shilling for PP? That's something I wasn't clear on. I still can't believe that after all this RC and FV are the ones who manage to stay employed.

As for Frons, after all these years and the damage he's done, I don't think he deserves all this navel gazing. Walt Willey said Frons wasn't the devil. As much as I love what he had to say, I disagree. Frons was the devil but he wasn't the only one. There's plenty of blame to go around. There's been a lot of lying and incompetence at ABCD and just because it didn't ALL come from Frons doesn't let him off the hook. I don't care if he "loved" soaps. Ike loved Tina and Michael Jackson loved propofol.

+1 million

I think they're taking it on because they need jobs and ABC doesn't want to buy out their contracts. Although, didn't ABC release them from their contracts back when they were shilling for PP? That's something I wasn't clear on. I still can't believe that after all this RC and FV are the ones who manage to stay employed.

As for Frons, after all these years and the damage he's done, I don't think he deserves all this navel gazing. Walt Willey said Frons wasn't the devil. As much as I love what he had to say, I disagree. Frons was the devil but he wasn't the only one. There's plenty of blame to go around. There's been a lot of lying and incompetence at ABCD and just because it didn't ALL come from Frons doesn't let him off the hook. I don't care if he "loved" soaps. Ike loved Tina and Michael Jackson loved propofol.

I think I understand some of these actors not wanting to point a finger at Frons. Most of them likely wont work for ABC again and who knows where Frons ends up. But I think I will tend to believe Lucci's take more than anyone. She really doesn't have to worry about burning bridges and she also rarely comments on any of this.

As for Frons, after all these years and the damage he's done, I don't think he deserves all this navel gazing. Walt Willey said Frons wasn't the devil. As much as I love what he had to say, I disagree.

You disagree?? YOU disagree? Based on WHAT?! For the love of God, Miss Thang, you didn't work for Brian Frons, have a conversation with Brian Frons nor even meet Brian Frons. If you did, honey, believe me, I KNOW we'd be hearing about it for days! So, who the hell are YOU to sit up here and disagree with a man who has? You're not an "insider." You don't KNOW any "insiders."

It seems like the two people who know the least are typing the most.

It seems like the two people who know the least are typing the most.

Well, then, fine, I'll shut the [!@#$%^&*] up.

I think they're taking it on because they need jobs and ABC doesn't want to buy out their contracts. Although, didn't ABC release them from their contracts back when they were shilling for PP? That's something I wasn't clear on. I still can't believe that after all this RC and FV are the ones who manage to stay employed.

It is my understanding that ABC would only have physically released both from their contracts once the show ended its ABC run both in production and on air. The deal with Prospect Park stated they were to produce new episodes of the show and since they were no longer going to be producing new episodes of the show, and this was ever more clear to some of the cast/crew in the last two days of filming the ABC run, ABC would retain both Ron/Frank. Essentially, ABC didn't release either from their contracts once the Prospect Park deals were made. They simply agreed to let them move with the show when the shows run ended. Since they were staying on and Jill's deal was done, the network opted to move them in. Frank's deal with ABC called for his contract to extend through September 2012 and Ron through September 2013.