Y&R: Discussion for the Month of December

[Saving ATWT]

Billy reminds me of a 30something trust fund kid who can buy himself out of any problem. Both Gen X and Y are filled with guys like this. Also, I think defining 'manhood' is difficult today and may be one of the biggest of problems faced by soaps. Gone is the archtype of man as hero and pillar of maturity just like gone is the defination of woman as baby making machine in need of an owner. Y&R, and the remaining soaps, need to explore the new dynamics that exist between modern men and women.

Hogan should have never made the silly men with balls comments because it haunts and never dies down. Billy has no balls for anything outside his own self-interest and, now, Victoria, which is just an extention of his own self-interest.

[edgeofnik]

Yeah, Jeffrey!!! The Nick choose between Faith and Adam. Why do the writers do this? If they can't have Sharon say - you can't bring Phyllis around Faith either or simply - I'm a 40 year old woman - FU!

[Saving ATWT]

Yeah, there are big holes across the canvus and this is something Y&R has rarely ever done. This reminds me of late As the World Turns--not Hogan's writing but Goutman's poor choices as EP. I am not a PR fan but feel he was just better organized when it came to long term planning. MAB certainly brought a more artistic edge to the show but Y&R needs more than a decorator. Too bad they haven't been able to steal someone from ABC Daytime

[Khan]

There's no denying that Sharon Case and Michael Muhney share chemistry. It's just unfortunate that one's stuck playing a helpless victim while the other's playing Hoagy's answer to Todd Manning.

[Khan]

There is nothing "fun," "comic" or "relief" about this story.

[Khan]

For once, I'm in total agreement with you.

[DRW50]

The main reason it haunts him is because of his writing. If you write a decade of nothing but glorification of pigs and thugs, then the quote will always be fresh. Billy is a classic male Sheffer character - he whores around, he's a total failure, he hurts everyone, and yet he's always the victim.

[DaytimeFan]

That's how I found David Tom's portrayal, recall that Billy was a mess under him, a boozy, bloated, spoiled teenager who couldn't quite conform to John and Jill's love for him. It almost suffocated him.

What MAB and Co have done to him with Billy Miller is they've removed his sentimental side, the side that was alive and well throughout all the previous performers. Billy had mommy and daddy issues, he just wanted to be what they wanted him to be.

This Billy doesn't give a damn about that and it doesn't fit the character, no amount of evolution is going to take someone from sentimental to ice cold and ruthless.

And the Billy/Mac "Taboo love" isn't so taboo anymore!

I also think Jack has loved two people in his life: Ashley and Tracey, I think he needs them, loves them, goes to bat for them, generally. I agree that his relationship with John was strange, he didn't love him so much as he wanted to be him, he wanted that approval. I also think Jack has an odd bond with Jill, almost like he sees who he would have been without privilege.

[Khan]

It's too bad Y&R doesn't have credible matriarchs anymore. BITD, you could trust someone like Liz Foster to put a "man" such as Nick Newman in his place. Hell, even Doris should have been there to argue down that douche! "What are you really worried about, Nick? Do you not want your brother involved in Faith's life...or in Sharon's?"

[DRW50]

The only time we see Doris is for a Sharon pity party.

[Khan]

You're right about Doris. And unfortunately, all Nikki can put into place are ice-cubes in a glass and sequins on her bra.

Why did Bill Bell have to die?

[DRW50]

I wouldn't even mind Billy shunning his family if it was treated as such. Instead, Billy screws them over but is somehow still the cute little devil/poor unloved victim. It's very cheap writing.

Seeing the Abbotts in the 80's, you can see their deep love for each other even if they were sometimes appalled by each other's behavior or choices. I don't see that at all now. The Ashley/Jack relationship seems very one-sided. The only bonds I see are when Traci makes her brief returns.

[Saving ATWT]

I think Bill Bell considered Jack to be a latent gay. Jack seems to only locate his passion in so far as Victor is conserned and Bell never made an effort to position the character otherwise. What bothers me about Jack is that he has never been able to heathaly break from his nuclear family: He wants Ashley, Tracy, Billy and himself to stay young forever, live in the mansion and run Jabbot together. Jack, like Billy, has a touch of the act first, think later type Peter Pan in him. Jack seems to idolize John now, but I agree with your read about him wanting his dad's power.

I see Jill as Jack's 'Fag Hag'. I hate how the current regime has removed her from Jabbot and locked Jill in the back room of Fenmore's.

Tom left the show bruised by the break with Mac. I see such a trauma as the sort of thing that could cloud or even destroy his semtimental side. Also, it isn't so uncommon for a boy to loose his softer side and become more cynical as he ages.

[DeeeDee]

Jack wasn't a perfect son but he definitely loved John.

Hogan doesn't need matriarchs when he has misogyny.

[DeeeDee]

And Jack, Ashley & Billy treat her like an extra.