Y&R: Discussion for the Month of December

[Khan]

IOW, he's lazy, which is not what I'd call a ringing endorsement.

Y&R doesn't always give any actor the greatest material. Yet, even limited actors like Doug Davidson and Peter Bergman clearly show up to play. Perhaps, if BM and several others within the younger set would quit clowning and adopt a more responsible work ethic, we wouldn't feel the need to call them out for half-assed performances. I'm just saying.

[Saving ATWT]

As I just said to Carl, I like the manner in which Miller and the writers have created a more complex Billy. Anything less would be to neglect the history of Bill Bell's characters--Jill cheated on John with Jack and in the process passed along to Billy a tricky birth right.

I do agree with you on the issue of escapism but also consider true soap to also be about the study of human behavior and human nature. ATWT did a great job with family because Marland focused on the theme of forgiveness and transending personal differences. The Hughes were a complex layered tribe but the love was easy to understand. On Y&R, the Abbot family has always been a sort of snake pit and I see the dysfunction as not just logical but fun to watch.

[DRW50]

That would work if Billy and Jill had a close relationship. He loathes her. There was also no indication, before Billy was cast with a man who fails to have any rapport with his scene partners, that Billy resented his family or saw himself as a bastard child.

[Khan]

C'mon, Deke, you should know that coffee does not help a hangover, so stop forcing it down Nikki's throat. (Seriously, I think he became an alcoholic because he kept mistaking scotch for herbal tea.)

[Khan]

I'm actually lovin' today's Y&R. Victor confesses to murder and everyone's like, "Bitch, please!"

[Khan]

Dear God, Billy's sudden "family schtick" is about as genuine as the burns on Matty Jane's face.

[dm.]

Some casting changes on tomorrow's USA episode:

[DaytimeFan]

Again, don't really see where the Abbott family unfairly treated Jill like crap. She was a scheming golddigger the first marriage to John while also getting involved with Jack. Then cheated on him when he was impotent on the second marriage to John. Then when John returned in 1999 he and Jill had firmly mended fences. And all the while Jill had worked at Jabot.

Remember John's death scenes and Jill's involvement?

I don't understand the characterization that Jill was treated poorly by Jack, Tracey and Ashley. Any animosity towards Jill was short lived and certainly partially Jill's fault since she cheated on John.

Lest we forget, Jill became aware that John wasn't Ashley's father, but she never played that card.

Hate how they re-wrote Billy and Jill. David Tom (and the other two recasts after him) all managed to convey that Billy didn't hate Jill. In fact, Jill was firmly in Billy's corner, his fiercest defender. I will never forget when Billy's heart stopped in the snow and Jill and John just exploded, trying to keep him alive.

The writers since MAB joined have done their damndest to destroy Billy and Jill's relationship. I just hate it.

[JSROCKS]

The introduction of the Caingaroo as the long dead P3 didn't help matters much. Even when he was exposed as the fraud that he was/ is, Jill's adoration of him showed no bounds. It's only been since Victurd's actions started to unravel that Jill has showed any kind of motherly feelings toward Billy.

[DRW50]

Wait, they've written Noah out again? Why? So they can still try to pretend Sharon and Nick are 18?

[soapfan770]

They must have changed their story plans at some point and dropped some big holes left behind. All back during the summer I kept reading rumors of a possible Noah/Eden/Ricky/Hunter quad and then strange stuff about Noah and Eden and their time in Paris. Well Hunter only appeared in eight episodes total before being dropped, Ricky's arrival was severely delayed and was only used to usher out Heather it looks like at this moment, and the whole stuff about Noah and Eden has been completely abandoned, all those awkward scenes about "the truth" long forgotten.

[DRW50]

It's pretty pathetic to yet again flush Noah off the canvas. None of these people, even after a combined 25 years of stinking up daytime, can tell a story. Not one story. There was no reason to bring Ricky back, which is clear from what he's done since his return. No reason for Eden...ever. That they see Noah as so expendable shows their lack of creativity or intelligence. Nick and Sharon are brain dead whores and having a son might actually address that.

[DeeeDee]

There's only so many times Noah can yell at Sharon & ignore Nick's whoring around.

[soapfan770]

I imagine if Cassie was still alive we'd get some lovely tale in the form of something like a Sharon/Sam/Cassie triangle. Better yet, Sheffer gives us Lusty 2.0 in the form of Adam and Cassie.

Just about every story in 2011 started and then went completely nowhere. All those "big" promised stories (Cane's death, Colin vs. Genevieve, Sharon's "death"/on the lamb, Diane's murder etc,) have been complete busts. There is no hope for this show to ever actually get better.

[Saving ATWT]

I don't think Billy hates Jill. He is presented as the brooding, self-centered type of man who is challenged when it comes to the formation of personal connections: A stripped down, less sentimental but more realist incarnation of Jack. I don't think Jack Abbot ever loved anyone, including his father, hense the affair with Jill. Jack knew his place, understood that he was supposed to love his father but really just wanted control of Jabbot. (Bill Bell was playing on old literary motifs in which the prince son murders the father king thus stealing the kingdom and even toyed with Oedepus when it came to the Jill affair).

Also, fans seem to have trouble seeing the difference between boy Billy (Thom) and man Billy (Miller). Bell, and soaps in general, tend to present the teenage set, and male players in particular, as good boys. A lot of the stories center around the loss or end of innocence. Billy and Mac's taboo love is a fair example of this. 1970's Jill Foster is another example. I don't consider maturation a character rewrite but, instead, just a part of a character's evolution. I see Billy as a fusion of Jill (able to love) and Jack (cocky, overly ambitious, selfish). The current regime seems determined to replace vets with chips off the old block: Billy as Jack; Adam and Victoria as Victor; Nick as a jerky male Nikki; Cloe as a modern day and more independent Jill; Tucker as Kay with a penis.