GH: Classic Thread

[Hunnibunni1025004]

Wow! So Diana dated brothers (Joel and Owen). How exciting was GH during this time period. 

 

[OzFrog]

I’ve been going back to 1996 GH recently (as it was the year I first started following GH as a teen back in Australia), specifically the Jax/Brenda/Sonny/Lily storyline, and it strikes me how even back then the writing was so deep, rich, and character-focused. I’m curious to know though when exactly Labine stopped and Guza started.

In case anyone is interested, link to the 1996 Sonny/Brenda playlist is here, featuring such memorable events as Jax’s eccentric introduction, Tracy’s re-entry and exile from the Qs, and most importantly Clink/Boom!

 

[carolineg]

Guza takes over on March 4th, 1996 with Karen Harris.  Guza departs and Culliton and Harris take over on Aug. 6th of the same year.  Culliton takes over solo briefly then Iacobuzio/Whitesell and Guza is back by December 1997.***

Clink Boom is May 1996, so I don't know if that was entirely Guza's idea or part of Labine's story arc.  I always though Guza created Miranda, but she doesn't appear until later in 1996 although she was hinted at for awhile.  Culliton does most of the culmination of the triangle including S&B's reunion.  I/W do the actual non-wedding.  And Sonny is gone by the time Guza comes back in 1997.   So in all honesty, Guza didn't write a lot for Sonny/Brenda/Jax-just their most famous moment.  Labine did most of the heavy lifting with Sonny/Brenda.

***All these dates are from Wikipedia, so take that for what it's worth. 

I also don't know how involved Guza was before he took over in 1996.  I was always under the impression ideas like pivoting Jax to Brenda were more Guza ideas than Labine's, but the dates don't really support that.

I am sure someone on this board has articles or better knowledge of the Labine/Guza transition, but those are just some dates to help you out.

[titan1978]

A few things I can clarify from interviews/social media posts by the writers I have read over the years- Michele Val Jean has said that Carly was entirely Guza’s creation, and that Labine was happy to help them with the transition and let them implement pieces to help with the transition, as the other writers were mostly staying. By all accounts Jason’s accident was also a joint effort, although the idea was generated by Labine and team deciding they needed to do something with Steve Burton, he wasn’t being utilized enough.

Guza and his team had a bible, it went through a period of time after he left for Sunset Beach, some say 4 months, some say 6. Miranda was in it. The specifics of Clink/Boom were all Guza and his team, as was how important Jax becomes to Brenda. Culliton used the outlines, and when they ran out it was very noticeable.

Tracy being part of the Q takeover storyline was dictated by ABC to reintroduce her character before she was on The City as the lead, replacing Morgan Fairchild. It fell in line with Lois leaving Ned perfectly too.

As a viewer, it was clear that the show wasn’t as tight by the fall of 96, and really falls off the rails shortly after Laura’s fake death is exposed. 
 

The show’s writing was very collaborative at that point. Nikolas came about because Genie Francis wanted to play a secret, and had spoken about those missing years being a good source for story, including having had a child. She also had been pushing for how important Lesley was to Laura.

Lulu’s illness was one of the ideas generated as a possible reintroduction storyline when Luke & Laura returned to the show, and it was deemed not big enough.

The entire Miranda backstory was grafted on to Alexis, and the delivery was wild. One conversation with Luke, and he laid out her entire past as a child of Mikkos. And Helena having killed her mother.

That was a strange time to watch the show- Guza wasn’t credited yet, but onscreen everything got more Guza like right away. It was pretty clear to me that he had been tweaking things before he was credited.
 

His “relaunch” week sets up all his stories for his return in ‘97, starting with Nikolas being shot at Luke’s and Carly telling Tony Jason was her baby’s father. Speaking of which, AJ being Michael’s father was not planned by Guza, but it was one of the few things he loved that Culliton did.

It was a wonderful time on the show. As much as I loved Labine’s very grounded stories, the show had run out of steam after Stone died. It was like Guza and Riche found a perfect balance between the grounded Labine era while infusing some of the action and intrigue of the Monty era.

Sonny/Brenda/Jax was a fantastic triangle, and Clink/Boom was an iconic moment on soaps.

I was also watching some stuff from this period recently, and I couldn’t help but notice how stuff like the Cassadines could have flopped easily, but didn’t. The audience remembers them and the silly Ice Princess weather machine. But because of the mood the writers and producers used for them, they are more mysterious than silly, all the fog, dark clothes, grandness without spectacle. And the way Tony and Genie play the scenes makes them seem dangerous and scary. Laura is terrified and her past trauma makes that story work (excellent casting for Stefan and Nikolas helped too)!

[carolineg]

Thank you for clarifying.  While looking at the dates I was a bit confused because a lot of things I attributed to Guza or felt like Guza didn't fall in line with the actual timeframe.

Aj being Michael's father was probably the best thing about all of 1997 tbh.

[DeliaIrisFan]

The scenes from the first few months of the Cassadines' return in 1996 were exciting, and did manage to fit into the more grounded show GH had become by that point.  But I question whether that ever could have been sustainable, even if there hadn't been another writing turnover. 

A lot of dramatic (and well written by Val Jean, Mulcahey, et al) confrontations with most everyone in town could only go so far.  Eventually the Cassadines, who(se family) had once tried to freeze the world, would have to show their hand and actually attempt to do whatever they really came back to town to do - and every other character/story on the show at the time would have had to exist within that same universe.  And the friction between Laura and the men/boys in her life also seemingly had a shelf life, before they would have to get to the uncomfortable (especially given her history with Luke) gist - they blamed her for being sexually trafficked and/or how she reacted to becoming pregnant as a result.  I actually wonder whether Guza or anyone else actually knew what the emotional and/or mystery climax would be.

Never mind that ABC had just been bought by Disney, and the network seemed to be a lot more involved from that point forward.  Not a lot of long-range umbrella stories like this was shaping up to be (didn't the Cassadines even buy the hospital or something?) really got to play out as originally planned from that point forward, even if the credited writers stayed put.

Edited December 17, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[Contessa Donatella]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is when Claire asked to be freed because she told Wendy Riche she was totally exhausted & just bone tired, right? 

Have you ever heard, or did you read in the Digest GH60 Special Edition how Steve Nichols got cast as Stefan? I totally love it. MBE was already playing Katherine Bell & there was a fan event & SN went with MBE to it. And, in no time at all Wendy Riche came over & started chatting him up & she began talking about this dude Stefan. And, from that he was cast. 

[titan1978]

Well for me what you post is ultimately why I got sick of them. The only actual endgame that happened with any consequence was the slow dissolution of Luke & Laura’s marriage. The immediate goals of establishing the Cassadines on the then current show (including the tone they wanted) was a success. Within a few years we had an impeccably stylish Helena just threatening everyone without any major movement. Stefan was saddled with Katherine, who was killed twice, and a relationship with Laura nobody thought was going to last. Everything after that was just a slow slog to the end of the character.
 

We never got to see where the hospital takeover was going, or Stefan and Bobbie’s marriage. I know real world issues happened that they had to work around in 1996- John Beradino’s death, Bob Guza leaving due to his Sunset Beach contract, Genie Francis’ second pregnancy- all played a part in the way the Cassadine story was told. I don’t even remember whatever the stupid faberge egg had in it, or the online game Stefan was playing with Lucky was all supposed to be about. We even got Lesley back, but Culliton clearly had no interest in telling that story. And 1997 became the year Riche got distracted by the launch of Port Charles.

 

[DeliaIrisFan]

Agreed completely.  I just don't think Guza staying would have changed much of any of that (except Katherine's involvement).  I believe the Faberge egg contained a computer virus - which, while terribly executed, was as logical an endpoint as any for a character who was presented as holding an epic vendetta against a woman his family had trafficked and an entire community they had tried to eradicate, literally.  Either these Cassadines would have eventually shown their hand and been dispatched of like '80s short-term villains, or proven to be not as bad as their relatives - which would have had to involve making a definitive break from them.  (Or some combination of the two, i.e., Nikolas realizing his family was as bad as everyone said just as he was put in a position where he had to kill Stefan to save Laura, perhaps with Laura even trying to take the rap to protect him like her mother had done for her.)  I really don't believe there was ever a long-term story plan or character arcs, just a lot of mood and dialogue that was probably better than it had a right to be.

[Vee]

I can't argue with a lot of the points made above, but I do think the re-introduction of the Cassadines was impeccable and I suspect there had to be some sort of long-term bible or plan for whatever the hell they were doing - I don't think they were just spitballing. (Someone should ask MVJ or Mulcahey on Twitter.) But it also would've allowed Stefan and Nikolas to remain, whatever it was. I blame Guza's first exit and the other factors mentioned. I also think Stefan and Laura got ruined by execution, plotting, the long wait between writers, Katherine and so on; they were scorching when he first appeared but by the time they got together it was Sominex. Plus, as a kid I never accepted the breakup of Luke and Laura (and their quickie reunion under JFP in her dying days was mishandled).

Edited December 20, 2023 by Vee

[Khan]

Once the show acknowledged that Luke had raped Laura, there was no way that they could put them back together.  Which is why I was dead set against acknowledging it.

I think there was a long-term plan in place for the Cassadines and others, but that plan was ruined primarily by Bob Guza's forced departure from GH to work on SUNSET BEACH.  Unfortunately, in the time that he was away, that plan was changed to the point where, even after Guza had returned for round two, GH was never again as on-track as it had been before he left.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Khan

[DeliaIrisFan]

As far as asking one of the other writers what the original plan was, didn't Mulcahey essentially state in print that initially there was no firm commitment as to whether the Carly character would be good or bad, or what her agenda was - they just gave her different types of scenes to see what stuck?  His words were more gracious than I am conveying—I recall he meant it as a compliment to SJB, saying they basically figured out who the character was based on her performance and all the layers she brought—but that was my takeaway.  I think it's kind of similar with the Cassadines, no?  In hindsight, 1996 GH was a lot of interesting ideas with mostly good casting, but not much follow-through.

Culliton got a lot of blame at the time and my teenage self certainly partook in that, but by all accounts he's been very successful as a staff writer since, i.e., executing a(nother) head writer's vision.  If there was a long-range story in place at GH with characters he clearly wanted to keep on, I feel like he would have followed the contours.  Unless Guza had a brilliant, multi-year story outline that he refused to share with anyone else on the writing team, and never came close to replicating in his career.  Didn't he write a crossover story for Faison on Loving in the early 90s that is largely considered a flop?  I can't help but think that's illustrative of what the '90s Cassadines might have been with a lesser (cumulative) writing team and/or a weaker foundation to build upon.

[carolineg]

I have said before and will say again-almost all of 1997 was a mess.  The only bright light was the Carly/AJ/Michael saga.  Miranda being entirely dropped threw off the intended Cassadine story and it was handed to Alexis, the Stefan/Katherine debacle, Genie being gone, the absolute stupidity of the Sonny/Brenda/Jax nonsense, Kevin/Lucy being on their way out, the Pierce Dorman mess which I still don't understand (he's a drug lord?).  Somethings couldn't be helped casting wise like Rena leaving, Genie's maternity leave, KMc going part time, LH/JL going to PC, LH as Miranda bombing and VM and MB being wishy washy about staying or leaving, but, man, the momentum was lost.  1998 even with Guza had some moments, but also a lot of iffy stories like Brenda's breakdown and the Tale of 2 Macs.

I really think Guza had a pretty good idea of where he was headed and I wouldn't be surprised if he kept it to himself.  Casting issues may have taken him out too, but I think it would have at least been more coherent that year if he had stayed.

[Vee]

No, I think that's a big extrapolation. Seeing where a new actor fits is not the same thing as a long-form story bible for a major plotline at all. And since it's come up, Carly was created and Sarah Brown was hired in the last days of Labine - what if anything she had in mind for the character we don't really know. But Guza made her what she became, which all the longtime writers from both Labine and Guza's tenures confirm. People too often take Mulcahey and MVJ's quotes to mean Guza hired SJB and made Carly, and it's not that simple. From WLS:

As for Loving, that show blew through maybe over half a dozen writers in under five years - I doubt the silly Faison crossover was anything but an ABC mandate or something from one of their many EPs.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Vee

[Contessa Donatella]

The show had a persistent problem because of the rape & I thought it was pretty stellar of them to bring it out into the light of day & deal with it. And I thought the story Michele Val Jean wrote about Luke raping Laura & Liz's stranger rape & Lucky getting all bound up in empathy for Liz & Nik thinking that was his moment to deliver a comeuppance & told Lucky about Luke raping Laura, was pretty brilliant. What would you have had them do? 

But, you are correct that they couldn't put that Genie back into that lamp. 

I was reading notes from conversations with Patrick Mulcahey recent-ish & I have underlined, "Do not write that Luke kisses Laura." 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Donna L. Bridges
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