7 hours ago, Videnbas said:

I have always loved Anthony's exit storyline because it was so unusually dark and morbid for B&B, and at the same time I remembered that B&B of the mid 90s was pretty crowded with psychos, not all of whom made sense in terms of previous character history (Sly as he was established as a character in 1992 and 1993 would certainly not have done what he did at the end of his run, and Maggie's turn to the dark side was also pretty unexpected). So naturally I was curious when Anthony was introduced which category he would fall into - the "suddenly randomly out of the blue psycho" or the "psycho all along" category. (Of course, in terms of character development and storytelling, the latter is far more satisfying.) Thus my special attention to Anthony's character development, and possible instances of foreshadowing. (#1701 is the biggest one yet.)

So is he another one of those insufferable B storyline male characters like Mick Savage or Blake Hayes 🤮😂😂

31 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

So is he another one of those insufferable B storyline male characters like Mick Savage or Blake Hayes 🤮😂😂

I am not quite sure how to answer that. If by B storyline male you mean any male who isn't Eric or Ridge, then, yeah. (Back in the day I heard it described as the "Non-Forrester Male Syndrome", meaning all men who weren't Forresters tended to get backburnered and/or eventually written out.) As for insufferable, I'd say the "A storyline males" are often worse in that regard.

1 hour ago, Videnbas said:

 As for insufferable, I'd say the "A storyline males" are often worse in that regard.

Haha true. 

I guess I was talking about Non-Forrester males. They just seemed to annoy more than Eric or Ridge did 😂

Clark had the only good male storylines but for the first 3 4 years. Bb is a female driven show. Brooke and Stephanie I think drove 95 percent of the main main storylines. 

5 hours ago, divinemotion said:

Clark had the only good male storylines but for the first 3 4 years. Bb is a female driven show. Brooke and Stephanie I think drove 95 percent of the main main storylines. 

True - for the most part, the men on B&B tend to be supporting characters in the women's storylines. But it's the women who have most of the agency and whose point of view is usually explored. I still think there have been a fair amount of interesting male characters (and Clarke is definitely one of them) but they are rarely as "deep" or layered as the women and often fill a single plot function whereas the women are a lot more well-developed.

6 hours ago, divinemotion said:

Clark had the only good male storylines but for the first 3 4 years. Bb is a female driven show. Brooke and Stephanie I think drove 95 percent of the main main storylines. 

With that Clarke also was a rare species. Usually these non-Forrester males only drive story 1-2 years max before being reduced to a sidekick and eventually written off the show after 5 years the latest.

12 hours ago, Videnbas said:

True - for the most part, the men on B&B tend to be supporting characters in the women's storylines. But it's the women who have most of the agency and whose point of view is usually explored. I still think there have been a fair amount of interesting male characters (and Clarke is definitely one of them) but they are rarely as "deep" or layered as the women and often fill a single plot function whereas the women are a lot more well-developed.

Ridge and Liam I'm Looking At You!!!👀👀👀

12 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

With that Clarke also was a rare species. Usually these non-Forrester males only drive story 1-2 years max before being reduced to a sidekick and eventually written off the show after 5 years the latest.

True, Nick Marone and Owen Knight was kinda The Same, of course Nick was a Sidekick for longer than one would expect 

Edited August 3, 20223 yr by Joseph

On 8/1/2022 at 7:26 PM, Videnbas said:

See the pattern? Anthony’s entire two year run on the show is basically a kind of "palindrome"!

I enjoyed reading your thoughts tremendously. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

I find the "palindrome" point particularly fascinating. Wonder if that was deliberate. I tend to think they might have had a 2-year plan for Anthony - but the palindrome just happened.

Edited August 3, 20223 yr by Aback

9 minutes ago, Aback said:

I enjoyed reading your thoughts tremendously. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

I find the "palindrome" point particularly fascinating. Wonder if that was deliberate. I tend to think they might have had a 2-year plan for Anthony - but the palindrome just happened.

Yes, I am not saying all of this was intentional - some of it may have been a consequence of simply the character being kept consistent enough that he had certain behaviors that he displayed more than once. And it's also possible that certain events that were not meant as foreshadowing at the time were remembered in later storylines and retroactively became foreshadowing. Nevertheless, it's pretty neat the way it turned out. At first I thought I might just be inventing patterns that weren't there, but then when very specific and fairly unusual plot points like "feigning grief as a morbid kind of flirting" or "scheming to see the girl naked by manipulating one's own design" happened twice, it did feel like a conscious choice (after all, this kind of foreshadowing/reintegration of past plot elements is very common in fiction). And of course the "bookend" symmetry between Anthony's first scenes and his last must have been deliberate as he even reminisced about the former during the latter.

On 8/1/2022 at 2:08 PM, divinemotion said:

You are welcome. I have complete February to August in big files... but they are not cut into episodes. I will upload these files into a different folder into 2005 that i will name "Feb to August ... Uncut..."I also have a lot from Feb to August in different quality that is cut in episodes.these I will add in the normal folders. I will upload everything so you guys can decide what to watch.

I am currently uploading months from 2003... I hope to have time to do the rest today. 

I have 2006 to 2008 in original cbs recordings quality but I think it's pretty similar to the ones we already have so I will just add missing episodes in these years.

I just looked at the May 2005 uncut episodes and compared them to the transcripts on TV megasite. I trimmed off some of Part 4 because it jumped from the May 24 episode to clips from April 13, 15, and 18 (Thomas and Gaby scenes only). So I cut out those April 13 scenes and uploaded as a partial episode (you uploaded April 15 and 18 already). Just FYI.

 

I'm DEAD lol, how did RM last this long on a soap and his acting never once improve???

 

 

So I just finished up with the Catalina storyline and I'm curious, was there any specific reason why they had Scott die on B&B instead of Y&R? Was it meant for ratings or something?

How did the fans react? Did they like it or hate it?

9 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

So I just finished up with the Catalina storyline and I'm curious, was there any specific reason why they had Scott die on B&B instead of Y&R? Was it meant for ratings or something?

How did the fans react? Did they like it or hate it?

Good point, why they killed Scott on B&B? Was it supposed to be a prop to justify Lauren staying on that show?

Scott died on B&B in November 1993. Lauren didn't cross over to B&B full time until Fall 1995.

On 8/1/2022 at 1:26 PM, Videnbas said:

Okay, here goes! Anthony Armando - the thesis! 😁 (remember you have been warned)

I am now watching early 1994 episodes (and I have watched a lot of old 1995 clips as well), and I have to say I find the character of Anthony Armando absolutely fascinating because of the way his character arc is structured.

What really sent me down the rabbit hole regarding Anthony was knowing how his story arc in its entirety will play out, and wondering if the writers had his turn to the (very) dark side planned all along, or if it was an afterthought. And the more I see, the more I think they did at least have some idea (or if not, they retraced their steps and made excellent use of character history).

Anthony’s murder of Ivana is, in my opinion, possibly the most evil crime ever committed on this show (even more sadistic and diabolical than any of Sheila’s individual crimes, although of course she beats him in terms of number of victims. But Sheila’s evil is mainly defensive whereas Anthony’s evil is offensive - Sheila is a cornered animal, Anthony is a predator. There is also the element of betrayal - Anthony brutally murdered a woman who loved him and thought that he loved her back - and the way Anthony was not tormented but actually enjoyed thinking about the crime afterwards).

And I found it intriguing to check if there were signs early on in Anthony’s character history that he had this extreme darkness in him. So far, I’d say yes, there are signs but they are subtle - so subtle in fact that they could pass for harmless if one did not know anything about his future storylines. But in hindsight, they become major red flags - Anthony’s arrogance, his emotional manipulation, his casual lies, his offer to show Macy his ”dark side”, his crossing lines without asking for consent. Another dead giveaway early on is how Keith relates to him. Keith has always been portrayed as Macy’s ”guardian angel” - he is an excellent judge of character and sees things as they truly are, and he has always been ”pure” in his intentions towards Macy. The way the show contrasts Keith and Anthony is striking, and does a lot to convince me Anthony was always meant to be nefarious, even ”diabolical”. He is the archetypal Big Bad Wolf right from the start. There are also subtle references to classic myths and literature in his storyline - from Little Red Riding Hood to Shakespeare's Othello.

But what really blew me away was the incredible "mirror symmetry" going on in Anthony's character arc, right from the very beginning. There are so many plot points and details that first occur in Anthony’s introduction storyline, and then return in a more sinister form, in the reverse order, in his exit storyline.

Bear with me...

Anthony’s introduction storyline:
1) Macy and Thorne together (starting point)—>
2) Anthony tries to have his way with Macy in her bedroom (kissing and possibly taking advantage of her sexually) but Thorne’s actions prevent him from succeeding—>
3) Anthony’s big ego makes him convinced Macy likes him although she is really furious with him —>
4) Thorne is adamant that Macy should stay away from Anthony and mentions her putting herself in ”harm’s way”—>
5) Anthony challenges Macy to have a drink with him (reverse psychology to keep her from drinking)—>
6) The "Dead Cat Gambit" - Anthony feigns grief over his (non-existent) dead cat in order to win Macy’s sympathies—>
7) Anthony designs a swimsuit for Macy and manipulates it in order to see Macy with her clothes off against her will—>
8)Anthony appears to become involved with another woman (Sally) but in reality still wants Macy
9) Macy turns Anthony down for Thorne—>
10) Thorne and Macy’s relationship changes (they get a divorce)—>
11) Macy involved with Anthony

Anthony’s exit storyline:
1) Macy involved with Anthony—>
2) Thorne and Macy’s relationship changes in the opposite direction (they get engaged)—>
3) Macy turns Anthony down for Thorne—>
4) Anthony appears to become involved with another woman (Ivana) but in reality still wants Macy
5) Anthony designs a wedding dress for Macy and manipulates it in order to see Macy with her clothes off against her will
6) The "Dead Fiancée Gambit" - Anthony feigns grief over his dead fiancée (whom he himself brutally murdered) in order to win Macy’s sympathies—>
7) Anthony suggests Macy have a drink with him (hoping she will accept)—>
8)Thorne is adamant that Macy should stay away from Anthony and even escapes from prison to get her away from him—>
9) Anthony’s big ego makes him convinced Macy wants to marry him although she really hates him —>
10) Anthony tries to have his way with Macy in her bedroom (taking advantage of her sexually and then killing her) but Thorne’s actions prevent him from succeeding—>
11) Macy and Thorne together (end point)

See the pattern? Anthony’s entire two year run on the show is basically a kind of "palindrome"!

Considering the actor had finished up a 3 year stint playing the dark Lawerence on Days right before joining BB...there was some talk whether he was another Lawrence or a nice character.

In fact, critics in 1994 thought he was wasted because there seemed to be no direction with the character.  However I do agree that he was a dark character pretending not to be.  Leading Sally on then going to Macy when she's single thus causing mother/daughter angst.

Meanwhile, Ivana was moved out of the Dylan/Jessica orbit and paired with a newly single Thorne.  So maybe 1994 was a set up year for this tale to climax in 1995.