They need redeeming qualities, but that's a different thing.

Exactly! Even villains can have some redeeming qualities such as love of animals or children, etc. Clint for example truly loves Jessica and wants to protect her. Beating up Ford wasn't about Clint's love of violence but revenge for his taking advantage of vulnerable Jessie AND a sign she was protected by a powerful father. Don't mess with Jess was message.

A villain such as Eddie ared short-lived b/c he has none a single redeeming quality. Mitch was the same way. Fans grew to detest him without seeing any quality that gave fans a reason to invest in him.

There's still a real heart and caring father and grandfather in Clint.

I think Echo/Aubrey are related too or at least connected to each other because the camera was on Echo and then it panned to Aubrey.

Oh, absolutely. I noticed, too.

I find it endlessly stupid how some people judge viewers based on their likes or dislikes about a fictional character. Millions loved Tony Soprano as such character usually are the more fascinating than do-gooders and Mary Sues.

We've been through this before TeamEric, you're missing my snarkasm. But not for nothing, if you find the words, "Rape me Todd!" escaping your mouth, you deserve every bit of derision you get.

Exactly! Even villains can have some redeeming qualities such as love of animals or children, etc. Clint for example truly loves Jessica and wants to protect her. Beating up Ford wasn't about Clint's love of violence but revenge for his taking advantage of vulnerable Jessie AND a sign she was protected by a powerful father. Don't mess with Jess was message.

Exactly, and Ford had it coming to him. And yet, the writers also took the opportunity to try to sneak in some compassion for the sleaze. Whenever they want us to feel for Ford, they have the tar beat out of him which is all so bizarre. a. He always deserves his ass kickings and why should we feel oh-so sorry for him? b. Just because his dad beat his ass doesn't mean I now feel bad for him when one of the citizens of Llanview does it, and c. Why is physical violence the only way they can think of to make this guy pay? At least one good soul-shredding verbal tirade from someone who has his number wuld be nice. I guess it's the most gratifying on an animal level to beat him up, but they don't even follow through, like I said, they somehow try to make us feel sorry for him along the way.

I think Echo/Aubrey are related too or at least connected to each other because the camera was on Echo and then it panned to Aubrey.

I like the idea of Echo having a daughter, I'm less thrilled about the idea of Rex having another sister, if you know what I mean. It's allllllways gotta be about Rex somehow or another. I realize JPL is the one with the years clocked on this show, but I still hope they'll continue to give KZ a very even share of this story and let Echo branch out into more stories of her own. Are they playing this by ear or does KZ have a set amount of months she's on board for?

We've been through this before TeamEric, you're missing my snarkasm. But not for nothing, if you find the words, "Rape me Todd!" escaping your mouth, you deserve every bit of derision you get.

SFK, your second line clearly proves you meant it so cease hiding behind snark and OWN IT.

One crazy fan screaming that at Roger Howarth does not equate the entire Todd fanbase. Most folks are smart enough to know that clear difference and not tarnish everyone with that broad stupid brush.

Edited December 3, 201015 yr by TeamEric

Exactly, and Ford had it coming to him. And yet, the writers also took the opportunity to try to sneak in some compassion for the sleaze. Whenever they want us to feel for Ford, they have the tar beat out of him which is all so bizarre. a. He always deserves his ass kickings and why should we feel oh-so sorry for him? b. Just because his dad beat his ass doesn't mean I now feel bad for him when one of the citizens of Llanview does it, and c. Why is physical violence the only way they can think of to make this guy pay? At least one good soul-shredding verbal tirade from someone who has his number wuld be nice. I guess it's the most gratifying on an animal level to beat him up, but they don't even follow through, like I said, they somehow try to make us feel sorry for him along the way.

See, I think ordering Ford beaten up was a REDEEMING quality for Clint. He was portrayed as a righteously protective father and he showed some real restraint there too stopping with just some punches to the ribcage. He wasn't written irrational and loving violence for violence sake and was smart with his retribution too. In contrast, I bet Todd would have been written psychotic and drawn more sympathy for Ford.

I would want his plan(s) to backfire, and Eddie either kills Nora, or brutally rapes her. After all, Bo's going to need a good motive in the big "Who Killed Clint?" mystery. (So, too, will Matthew when he is exposed to be the real culprit.)

You're not the slut of anything until you've baptized yourself in the country club fountain, people.

LOL you're not the slut of Llanview until you've screwed most of the males and/or screwed most of the Buke men!

OK this Echo stuff is stupid as hell. Why are they obsessing over events that happened 27 years ago?

LOL you're not the slut of Llanview until you've screwed most of the males and/or screwed most of the Buke men!

In other words you have to be Kelly or Blair

WTF is the point of kidnapping Nora? This is just over the top and unncesary

Big mistake Rex. I hope Marty goes off on him next

Aubrey isnt Joey's gf, she's his fiancee, after one month? The story sounds more like Babe and JR than ever. At least they didnt marry before they came to town

Edited December 3, 201015 yr by Cheap21

I like Aubrey and nuJoey so far... although it's never good to introduce a recast character with a new character right away, because it's like throwing two completely new people at us. Not sure if I'm a fan of that... but sort of excited for Kelly/Joey/Aubrey.

Oh Inez... this won't end well for you, no matter what you do.

Let me guess... Ford slept with Aubrey! =P

Just wanna say...

I totally called Ford having slept with Aubrey based on next week's spoilers! Now- if only we knew who she was working with... I hope it's Echo!

Anyhoo, JVD is rocking his material and I was totally backing Darker Clint UNTIL he gave a violent, criminal and known abuser a gun with orders to grab Nora. There Clint crossed a very big line so he needs to make some big atonement for that.

Is Jean Randolph still available?

SFK, your second line clearly proves you meant it so cease hiding behind snark and OWN IT.

One crazy fan screaming that at Roger Howarth does not equate the entire Todd fanbase. Most folks are smart enough to know that clear difference and not tarnish everyone with that broad stupid brush.

Look. I realize you are newish around here, but I shouldn't have to spell everything out short of putting a after every piece of snark. Those of us who've been posting for a while can recognize each other's tones, hopefully now you'll recognize mine, no need to get your feelings hurt over my hyperbole. OF COURSE it doesn't equate the entire fanbase, there are fans and there are nuts, I am poking fun at the nuts. Sane, rational fans know who they are and needn't take offense.

See, I think ordering Ford beaten up was a REDEEMING quality for Clint. He was portrayed as a righteously protective father and he showed some real restraint there too stopping with just some punches to the ribcage. He wasn't written irrational and loving violence for violence sake and was smart with his retribution too. In contrast, I bet Todd would have been written psychotic and drawn more sympathy for Ford.

I don't know if I would call it "redeeming" as much as I'd call it an understandable/justified move for a dad in such a situation. I do agree that I didn't see Clint in a negative light at all for ordering that, Ford had it coming. My point was that the writers took Ford's punishment and softened the blow (pun intended) by trying to make us feel sorry for him along the way (he was a child of physical abuse, had an awful male role model). Also agreed that I do not see Clint as any sort of blood-thirsty monster.

I kind of wish Rex would stay Charlie's. I guess there isn't as much drama in that, but it's nice to see someone actually happy about having a son and grandson.

I wish someone would try to help Marty. It's intervention time.