2 hours ago, Broderick said:

Dennis Cole was plumb horrible (even worse than John McCook). To my young eyes, the Lance character was ALWAYS a drip. I never could understand what Lorie and Leslie saw in him. They were constantly pulling each other's hair out over him, and I always thought Lucas Prentiss was kinder, more down to earth, more relatable, and more handsome than Lance. Plus Lucas wasn't tied to Vanessa's apron strings the way Lance was. The storyline would've made better sense to me if they'd been fighting over Lucas, and Lance had been the "consolation prize". Mercifully, Victor Newman gobbled-up Lance Prentiss and spat him out, which was about the best thing that could've happened to Y&R during that weird transition period from 1980 to 1982.

Lance is definitely a dumbass, especially when it comes to Vanessa. Lucas has his dumb moments too but he’s more weary of Vanessa’s lies and manipulations. I guess sans Lorie being on trial for her “murder”

1 minute ago, YRfan23 said:

Lance is definitely a dumbass, especially when it comes to Vanessa. Lucas has his dumb moments too but he’s more weary of Vanessa’s lies and manipulations. I guess sans Lorie being on trial for her “murder”

Well, to make Dennis Cole's Lance look "good", Mister Bell & Miss Alden took the strange route of having Lucas portray a complete prick during Lorie's trial. But for me, even THAT didn't work out well. I still sympathized with Lucas. Lucas was THERE when Vanessa died, and he heard Vanessa screaming, and then he saw her body on the street below. Although we (the audience) knew exactly what had happened -- Vanessa's fatal swan dive off the terrace -- Luke had no way of knowing that information, and I felt like he was completely justified in believing Lorie had knocked-off the old crone.

5 hours ago, Broderick said:

Dennis Cole was plumb horrible (even worse than John McCook). To my young eyes, the Lance character was ALWAYS a drip. I never could understand what Lorie and Leslie saw in him. They were constantly pulling each other's hair out over him

Yeah, Lance was not a prize.

I take it you're not a fan of John McCook even on B&B.

5 hours ago, Broderick said:

I always thought Lucas Prentiss was kinder, more down to earth, more relatable, and more handsome than Lance.

Lance was supposed to be suave and sophisticated, whereas Lucas was rugged and elemental.

5 hours ago, Broderick said:

Mercifully, Victor Newman gobbled-up Lance Prentiss and spat him out

I saw a scene of Victor and Dennis Cole Lance and I could not take Lance seriously as a rival for Victor.

2 hours ago, Broderick said:

Although we (the audience) knew exactly what had happened -- Vanessa's fatal swan dive off the terrace -- Luke had no way of knowing that information, and I felt like he was completely justified in believing Lorie had knocked-off the old crone.

Honestly, would the audience have blamed Lorie if she HAD pushed Vanessa off that balcony? I don't believe I was alive to watch Vanessa's shenanigans, but judging from what I've read and what little I've been able to see online, she was a real piece of work!

@Khan Vanessa Prentiss was on May 1976 to November 1981, so a little over 5 years.

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

I take it you're not a fan of John McCook even on B&B.

I'm not @Broderick , but nope, lol!

It's hard for me to explain why I'm not a fan, but...you know how, BITD, all those nighttime detective shows like "Hart to Hart" or "Murder, She Wrote" invariably would do an episode set BTS of some cheesy, long-running soap opera with names like "University Hospital" or "Beyond Our Years"? And how every one of those episodes invariably would feature an actor from the soap with a deep voice and model good looks, who appears to have trouble separating himself from the popular heartthrob that they play? Whenever I see that character in that episode, I always feel like they're talking about John McCook. Hell, I think even McCook himself played that part on occasion, lol.

6 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@Khan Vanessa Prentiss was on May 1976 to November 1981, so a little over 5 years.

Ah, okay. So, I was alive for some of it, but not old enough to remember anything I might've watched with my mom while she was on diaper duty, lol. (My memories of watching any TV, daytime or primetime, go as far back as 1981, but nothing Y&R-related). Thanks, @kalbir !

Edited 15 hours ago15 hr by Khan

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

I'm not @Broderick , but nope, lol!

It's hard for me to explain why I'm not a fan, but...you know how, BITD, all those nighttime detective shows like "Hart to Hart" or "Murder, She Wrote" invariably would do an episode set BTS of some cheesy, long-running soap opera with names like "University Hospital" or "Beyond Our Years"? And how every one of those episodes invariably would feature an actor from the soap with a deep voice and model good looks, who appears to have trouble separating himself from the popular heartthrob that they play? Whenever I see that character in that episode, I always feel like they're talking about John McCook. Hell, I think even McCook himself played that part on occasion, lol.

Hahaha, that's funny.

Between Y&R and B&B, John McCook made the guest star rounds on the Aaron Spelling hit factory (The Love Boat, Dynasty, Hotel); Magnum, P.I.; and Murder, She Wrote, but I don't think any of his characters were soap opera actors.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

Ah, okay. So, I was alive for some of it, but not old enough to remember anything I might've watched with my mom while she was on diaper duty, lol. (My memories of watching any TV, daytime or primetime, go as far back as 1981, but nothing Y&R-related). Thanks, @kalbir !

You're welcome.

I wasn't alive for all of Vanessa's run but after seeing the 1981 classic she was in, I was hoping we'd see more of her during the classics but we didn't. In that 1981 episode, Vanessa stole the show from Victor and that's no small feat.

Vanessa Prentiss was 100% cardboard (the perpetual Wicked Old Witch), and I always felt it was a disservice to KT Stevens, who was obviously capable of playing a more complicated character than she was given. Vanessa was nothing more than a "plot device" to make Lorie Brooks more sympathetic to the audience, as Lorie had previously been a fairly horrid girl. (Bell dusted-off the same trope about 1985, creating the cardboard character of Shawn Garrett to make the previously horrid Lauren Fenmore more sympathetic. Just as Vanessa had swan-dived off the penthouse balcony to make us tolerate the hateful Lorie Brooks, Shawn Garrett dug a grave in San Francisco to make us tolerate the hateful Lauren Fenmore.)

Vanessa's most "wicked" act prior to her suicide mission had been attempting to shoot Lorie Brooks and then pretend she'd mistaken Lorie Brooks for an armed intruder. Of course the plan backfired, and Vanessa accidentally shot Lackluster Lance instead. Lorie covered for the crone by asking Snapper to come treat Lance's wounds, and that kept a police report from having to be filed. Again, Lorie did the "nice" thing ("aww, what a sweetheart!") while Vanessa did the "terrible" thing ("what a wicked old witch!") It was all straight from the Bill Bell playbook of how to create sympathy for a flawed ingenue.

49 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Hahaha, that's funny.

Between Y&R and B&B, John McCook made the guest star rounds on the Aaron Spelling hit factory (The Love Boat, Dynasty, Hotel); Magnum, P.I.; and Murder, She Wrote, but I don't think any of his characters were soap opera actors.

McCook did appear as a soap actor in a 1982 episode of Hart To Hart in the episode " As The Hart Turns". Peter Brown, Leann Hunley, and Lanna Saunders also appear. In the episode Max is addicted to the soaps and enters a contest to appear. He enters Jennifer in the contest and she appears in a party scene. The production staff realizes she has a talent for writing and she becomes a writer on the series. I think Peter Browns character is in jeopardy of being killed off the soap and he tries to kill Jennifer.

Edited 14 hours ago14 hr by SoapDope78

@Paul Raven Thanks for the Conboy article. He definitely comes off as sleazy, although I appreciate the honesty as this is how many in the business still behave. That part about casting a busty woman if she's not meant to be sympathetic helps explain Sydney Sweeney's career.

I wonder if he had more say in casting as the '70s progressed as it just got worse and worse. His casting on Capitol and GL wasn't hot either.

@Broderick I agree about Tom Ligon. Even when he was on Oz I thought he was very charismatic.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

It's hard for me to explain why I'm not a fan, but...you know how, BITD, all those nighttime detective shows like "Hart to Hart" or "Murder, She Wrote" invariably would do an episode set BTS of some cheesy, long-running soap opera with names like "University Hospital" or "Beyond Our Years"? And how every one of those episodes invariably would feature an actor from the soap with a deep voice and model good looks, who appears to have trouble separating himself from the popular heartthrob that they play? Whenever I see that character in that episode, I always feel like they're talking about John McCook. Hell, I think even McCook himself played that part on occasion, lol.

That's it. He is a parody.

The role I enjoyed him most in was when he'd pop up on Alice as a cheesy game show host.

Re: Hart To Hart. McCook comes across similar to Robert Wagner. They are supposed to be these macho, charismatic, sexy men that women find irresistible, but in reality they are cheesy, bland and boring.

McCook as Lance gave me showroom mannequin vibes.

After his time on Y&R, Dennis Cole had his turn with the small screen, big ego soap persona. On Three's Company, he played an actor planning a sham marriage with Terri to save his career. His girl on the side was played by a future soap actress, Joy Garrett.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0722984/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_accord_1_cdt_epp_sm_1

Different show, but the parody aspect was also why I had a hard time buying Jim McKrell as menacing on General Hospital. I know you from Celebrity Sweepstakes, buddy.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Franko

3 hours ago, Broderick said:

Vanessa Prentiss was 100% cardboard (the perpetual Wicked Old Witch), and I always felt it was a disservice to KT Stevens, who was obviously capable of playing a more complicated character than she was given.

KT Stevens had a career ranging from Golden Age Hollywood to theater to primetime television to daytime television, but post-Y&R she didn't act much and she lived until 1994. From what I've seen of Vanessa, KT Stevens could have worked on one of primetime soaps but it wasn't meant to be.

2 hours ago, SoapDope78 said:

McCook did appear as a soap actor in a 1982 episode of Hart To Hart in the episode " As The Hart Turns".

Thanks for the info.

2 hours ago, SoapDope78 said:

Re: Hart To Hart. McCook comes across similar to Robert Wagner. They are supposed to be these macho, charismatic, sexy men that women find irresistible, but in reality they are cheesy, bland and boring.

Hahaha, that's funny.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

KT Stevens had a career ranging from Golden Age Hollywood to theater to primetime television to daytime television, but post-Y&R she didn't act much and she lived until 1994. From what I've seen of Vanessa, KT Stevens could have worked on one of primetime soaps but it wasn't meant to be.

KT Stevens was from the most unfortunate generation of Hollywood starlets -- girls born before 1920. As we know, roles for actresses from that generation dried-up completely by about 1960. Even the very biggest names of that generation (Joan Crawford and Bette Davis) were reduced to participating in the so-called "Psycho Biddy" or "Hagsploitation" genre, if they wanted to continue working. It became all the rage after 1960 to take an aging pin-up girl/glamour-puss from the Golden Age of Hollywood and cast her as a crazed, mentally unstable crone terrorizing others. And it caused many of those actresses to throw in the towel and retire (or semi-retire).

Bill Bell was guilty of hagsploiting KT Stevens in the role of Vanessa Prentiss, and I believe that was about the last straw for her acting-wise.

[Tennessee Williams wrote a play in 1959 called Sweet Bird of Youth about an aging actress trying to dig her way out of that morass of lousy roles for older leading ladies. Geraldine Page picked up a Tony award nomination in 1960 for the play and an Academy Award nomination in 1962 for the movie. (Miss Page was born about 1924 and was younger than Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Tallulah Bankhead, and KT Stevens. Had Miss Page actually been their age, she would've likely been considered too old for the part, lol.) Another old Golden Age actress (Lauren Bacall) played the role to great acclaim in the late 1980s when the play was revived.]

I got a kick out of y'all's comments about John McCook essentially being a parody of a soap actor. I always thought of him as being a second-rate musical comedy star erroneously elevated to a serious, dramatic actor. I could scarcely believe my eyes when Bill Bell dusted-off his tired ass and cast him as yet another suave, well-dressed, spineless wimp of a leading man in The Bold & the Beautiful. Mister Bell seemed to pin a tremendous amount of hope that a "riveting triangle" would emerge involving this pseudo-Ralph Lauren designer, his long-lost love (Beth Logan), and his shrewish witch-wife, the aging crone Stephanie Forrester. And as we all know, the actress playing Stephanie was a downright fierce performer, and she basically ground Eric and Beth into the dust from Day One, just as Eric Braeden had finished-off Dennis Cole in about five minutes on Y&R. Bill Bell attempted to "rectify" the B&B situation by recasting Beth right off the bat, believing that Beth was the problem. She wasn't. The real problem was that John McCook is a foppish weenie who couldn't hold his own against the Stephanie Forrester actress, and the whole storyline imploded. It's very hard to believe that John McCook has remained employed for almost 40 years in that role, but c'est la vie.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by Broderick