On 12/5/2022 at 4:04 AM, AbcNbc247 said:

Can’t help but wonder what daytime would be like today if the Aremid spin-off, and Manhattan Lives, had happened and were successful 

Yeah, the whole trajectory of DAYS would be SO different if Marlena and (WN) Roman were spun off to Manhattan Lives and stayed. Tony & Anna were to be a part of it too, prior to Thaao returning to DAYS in '93. 

Manhattan Lives could've potentially had legs to it, but Aremid would fizzle after the novelty wore off. Similar to the ideas about a Salem High (the Last Blast crowd) or Harmony High from Passions. They all sound like something that would only last a few years. 

20 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

Manhattan Lives could've potentially had legs to it, but Aremid would fizzle after the novelty wore off. Similar to the ideas about a Salem High (the Last Blast crowd) or Harmony High from Passions. They all sound like something that would only last a few years. 

IIRC, Salem / Harmony High were meant to be part of the Saturday morning line-up on NBC, probably replacing Saved by the Bell: New Class. So if they had managed to run beyond the Last Blast crowd, they probably would've replaced them with new cast members. Of course, NBC dumped the entire "teen NBC" line-up in 2002. 

Either way, they were never meant to be daytime soaps in the sense they'd run indefinitively for five days a week. 

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by te.

In hindsight, maybe not doing Manhattan Lives was for the best?

"Marlena would have been joined by step-daughter Carrie Brady, she would gain a vivacious and outgoing gal-pal (the aptly named P. T. Barnum), and she would find herself drawn to a wealthy Donald Trump-esque tycoon and his son."

From GH's Harlan Barrett to others, soaps were determined to have a Trump-like character in the 90s (just like they all wanted a Richard Branson character in the 00's).  I guess a little adultery and some hubris seemed compelling, compared to the racism, sedition, and conspiracy theories he is known for now.

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by j swift

On 11/30/2022 at 8:31 AM, titan1978 said:

While checking out @JAS0N47FB posts about the Horton Ornaments, I wondered is there an in-story origin of their creation?  Did the kids make their own, was Alice the one making them for years?  Has it ever been stated on the show who makes them for the characters?

Here is Jason's ornament page. Scroll past the images for more history
https://www.jason47.com/days/dayschristmas.html

A 2011 re-telling of the history of the Horton ornaments, plus a new town tree with it's own ornaments. (Has that idea of community-group ornaments on a town tree ever been done again?) The story is in the clip labeled "2 of 2".

 

 

 

With Roman, Marlena and Carrie leaving the parent show, would Bo and Carly headline Days along with Jack and Jennifer?

And John would be left in Salem? Doing what?

I haven't watched the Aremid episodes in ages. Was it obvious that it a hidden pilot? I guess Aremid was an early version of Passions.

5 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

Yeah, the whole trajectory of DAYS would be SO different if Marlena and (WN) Roman were spun off to Manhattan Lives and stayed. Tony & Anna were to be a part of it too, prior to Thaao returning to DAYS in '93.

I was thinking about what would be different. Sami's whole arc wouldn't have happened. No Carrie/Austin, probably no Shawn/Belle. And wherever NBC decided to put JER, maybe even no possession, or at least would have happened to another character.

4 hours ago, j swift said:

In hindsight, maybe not doing Manhattan Lives was for the best?

"Marlena would have been joined by step-daughter Carrie Brady, she would gain a vivacious and outgoing gal-pal (the aptly named P. T. Barnum), and she would find herself drawn to a wealthy Donald Trump-esque tycoon and his son."

Is that why Roman came off as such a douche in 1992 lol.

They were planning to break up Roman and Marlena, and then move Marlena to Manhattan?

43 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

They were planning to break up Roman and Marlena, and then move Marlena to Manhattan?

I was just reading the We Love Soaps interview with Sheri Anderson who worked on developing Manhattan Lives.  The proposed of the spin off was a part of Deidre Hall's 1991 comeback contract, along with the promise of more primetime exposure on NBC in TV movies and specials. 

Anderson wrote the death of Isabella.  She attributed Isabella's death to Stacy Greason quitting in 1992.  So, presumably, either Roman would have stayed with Isabella (assuming Greason quit because she saw the writing on the wall that Marlena was eventually going to paired with Roman if they stayed in Salem), or he would have become a mournful widower and raised Brady in Salem while the fresh-from-her-coma Marlena started a new life in NYC.

Of course, soon afterward James Reilly was hired and we get the John Black/return of Real Roman/but he looks like Chris Kostacheck story.  As I recall, Marlena and John don't hook up until later in 1992 after Isabella died and real-Roman gets side lined.

It may be revisionist history, but the feeling in the interview was that the development of the pilot was mostly to appease Deidre as a vanity project.  Because, as Anderson noted, the reason she was fired and the pilot was never developed was that DAYS ratings in 1991 did not warrant a spinoff.  Due to the fact that the return of Marlena did not result in the significant increase in viewers hoped for by NBC and the production.

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by j swift

44 minutes ago, j swift said:

I was just reading the We Love Soaps interview with Sheri Anderson who worked on developing Manhattan Lives.  The proposed of the spin off was a part of Deidre Hall's 1991 comeback contract, along with the promise of more primetime exposure on NBC in TV movies and specials. 

Anderson wrote the death of Isabella.  She attributed Isabella's death to Stacy Greason quitting in 1992.  So, presumably, either Roman would have stayed with Isabella (assuming Greason quit because she saw the writing on the wall that Marlena was eventually going to paired with Roman if they stayed in Salem), or he would have become a mournful widower and raised Brady in Salem while the fresh-from-her-coma Marlena started a new life in NYC.

Of course, soon afterward James Reilly was hired and we get the John Black/return of Real Roman/but he looks like Chris Kostacheck story.  As I recall, Marlena and John don't hook up until later in 1992 after Isabella died and real-Roman gets side lined.

It may be revisionist history, but the feeling in the interview was that the development of the pilot was mostly to appease Deidre as a vanity project.  Because, as Anderson noted, the reason she was fired and the pilot was never developed was that DAYS ratings in 1991 did not warrant a spinoff.  Due to the fact that the return of Marlena did not result in the significant increase in viewers hoped for by NBC and the production.

 

I agree it was mostly a Dee Hall vanity project tied to her return in 1991, but it wasn't something that was going to happen at the time.  It was in development forever, but people were working on it.  It didn't die in 1991-it was still being talked about in mags for a few years after that.   From what I have pieced together I believe it was slated to replace a struggling AW in 1994-95 ish if picked up.  So from my understanding, it would have taken place after the Affair and Belle would have obviously gone with Marlena.  I don't think Roman (WN) was ever tied officially to the spinoff.  I think his presence was more assumed or discussed by writers/press, but Wayne didn't really have any involvement. 

As far as Isabella/RoJohn and John's future story-Isabella would have been dead by the time any spinoff would have happened (even if they started developing in 1991) and John/Kristen/Tony would have been the story.  Obviously, the show would have been completely different, but I think the focus could have been shifted to Bo/Hope/Billie instead of John/Marlena/Kristen.  

I think by the time JER honed in on the Possession idea-Manhattan Lives was all but dead except in theory.  Why would Deidre even want to leave when she was going to be the main star of the mother show?  Anyway, I think the Aremid spinoff was either an alternative idea for an AW replacement to compete against Sunset Beach or an early pre-cursor to JER's Passions.  Regardless, AW was picked up and MR left so that's that.  I don't think an Aremid spinoff would have ever beaten out a Spelling backed show regardless though.

Of course this is all just from things I have read over the years and not a definitive truth, but I think ML was a real concept and the Aremid spinoff was at best an idea.   

I am hesitant to believe that the pilot was continuing to be developed after Reilly was hired (despite speculation in SOD). 

Given that Sheri Anderson wrote the treatment for Manhattan Lives in 1991, there would be WGA rules which would be prohibitive for the development of the show by another writer because Ms Anderson would need to be paid for her part of the original concept (which may by why the talk of spin-offs changed to Aremid and other Reilly plots).  Unlike a primetime show where the initial show runner might be replaced, the cost is deferred because those shows do not last for decades, as a soap might. 

That's also why I never gave any credence to a Eugene spinoff, because after the bad blood between DAYS and Pat Falken-Smith, one couldn't imagine that they would want to be beholden to paying her residuals to spinoff characters that she created. 

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by j swift

45 minutes ago, j swift said:

I am hesitant to believe that the pilot was continuing to be developed after Reilly was hired (despite speculation in SOD). 

Given that Sheri Anderson wrote the treatment for Manhattan Lives in 1991, there would be WGA rules which would be prohibitive for the development of the show by another writer because Ms Anderson would need to be paid for her part of the original concept (which may by why the talk of spin-offs changed to Aremid and other Reilly plots).  Unlike a primetime show where the initial show runner might be replaced, the cost is deferred because those shows do not last for decades, as a soap might. 

That's also why I never gave any credence to a Eugene spinoff, because after the bad blood between Ken Corday and Pat Falken-Smith, one couldn't imagine that he would want to be beholden to paying her residuals to spinoff characters that she created.

If I remember correctly, the spinoff was dead in the water by 1993 when Reilly took over as head writer. 1993 was around the time that the magazines started talking about another possible NBC soap, Coming of Age, which had Bill Bell Jr. involved somehow. Missing amongst all of this is the fact that Gene Palumbo was involved in the creation of Manhattan Lives aka Body and Soul. It wasn't just Sheri Anderson. In fact, if I remember correctly, Palumbo was the one who was mentioned as the creator and/or head writer of the show in the articles back in the day. He was head writer in 1991 when Marlena returned. 

15 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

Coming of Age, which had Bill Bell Jr. involved somehow. 

Coming of Age sounds familiar. I think it was a creation of Bill Bell Jr. and Maria Arena Bell. I wonder how it got on NBC's radar and not CBS's.

If Gene Palumbo was responsible for Marlena's return it is no wonder that it was not a huge audience draw.  Looking back, the plot itself was completely unremarkable. 

Marlena shows up, lit beautifully as ever.  Everyone asks where she was.  She explains that she was in a coma and then escaped to return to Salem, with perfect makeup, a new hairdo, and a trunk full of pantsuits.  Everyone accepts this story and they move on with their lives.

By comparison when Laura returned to Port Charles, it may have just lasted a few weeks but she got a theme song by Christopher Cross, a return of the Cassadines, and the ramifications of her time away are still felt today in the character of Nikolas.  And Reva Shayne returned as a ghost, an Amish amnesiac, and a Caribbean Queen (or maybe just a princess).

Honestly, there is probably a big difference between a pilot or development deal being "dead" to execs and officially dead and I guess Manhattan Lives was one of those things.  I think articles have actually been quoted here that aren't just SOD speculation, but Corday or someone talking about it well past 1991 but I am too lazy to look it up lol.  I still think it was an idea that was kept around in case it was needed.  In actual theory it would make much more sense for Marlena and Carrie (who wasn't even around when Doc/RealRoman returned) to 'start over' post Marlena's affair/divorce, but it doesn't really matter anymore I guess.  It's fun to speculate though.

@j swiftI believe the ratings spiked a lot initially when Marlena returned.  I think I read the week she returned Days was #2, but it quickly petered out because the Tale of 2 Romans is awful.  And it is weird RoJohn was so gunho to find out what happened to Marlena while she was gone and it was dropped suddenly.  I can absolutely see why it the show didn't keep the audience, but I do think there was a lot of view interest in the returns at least initially.

I think my new mission is to track down an Aremid bible (if one exists) and compare and contrast it to early Passions.